SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

across the board

cancel GCSEs and A levels

Having a monumentally shitty day

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable
Yes we'll, when you work in the private sector and don't get every school holiday off, you have to send your school age children to childcare provision - which was also shut, so flame away as it was 6 months

You may have been without childcare for 6 months but a child was only out of their educational setting for 3 months and that's only if they didn't go back for some time before the summer holidays. That's a far cry from the hyperbolic 9 months you were suggesting earlier.

As far as schools are concerned, there are many steps that could make them safer environments. A few are:

1. stop the stupid idea to replace isolation with inaccurate testing. Testing should be introduced as mass testing, not alternatives to isolation, as this would actually reduce transmission,

2. fund proper, regular and effective cleaning and hand sanitiser,

3. provide better support for parents and businesses for when children need to isolate or need to be tested. This would stop children being sent in when they shouldn't be.

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable

Typical teacher response, a profession who can put no foot wrong, I'm not arguing with a stranger online about what service we received, and we did receive it, and I know I'm not alone - as a profession you seem to be totally blind to the fact that some schools were shite.

In any other profession said teachers would have been fired, but oh no, Bella t the protected species that is the teacher.

We were in a totally unusual and unfamiliar situation.So hard to see

• how individual teachers are responsible for that

• how firing individual teachers would be possible

And how do you think it would help the overall situation to fire teachers, when there is a national shortage? Would it not make things worse?

Typical teacher response, a profession who can put no foot wrong, I'm not arguing with a stranger online about what service we received, and we did receive it, and I know I'm not alone - as a profession you seem to be totally blind to the fact that some schools were shite.

In any other profession said teachers would have been fired, but oh no, Bella t the protected species that is the teacher

The Government made the decision to suspend the National Curriculum and change the status of schools from education to childcare. They removed any legal responsibility to provide any form of education from the school as a direct result of this. Most schools choose to do something for their children because they recognised the importance of remote learning but they didn't have to.

I'm not saying that some schools didn't provide as much as mine did but I'm saying that the fault of that lies with the Government.

Yes we'll, when you work in the private sector and don't get every school
Holiday off, you have to send your school age children to childcare provision - which was also shut, so flame away as it was 6 months
Not missing out on education though for 6 months.
The two are frequently blurred as the same issue: childcare and education.
Childcare should be on the government to help with(I am very angry that the govt has done the square root of fuck all in this area) and parents to find out what’s available to them.
Education should be on the schools to deliver and it helps when the government give decent warning, proper guidance for all parts of the country (not different ones for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England) and funding (and not going back on promises, such as laptops) to make this better.

This is an excellent thread on the subject and wish a lot of the posters were able to be involved in any government discussions on this-Mumsnetters would certainly do a better job!

@MintyCedric

cancel GCSEs and A levels

Having a monumentally shitty day

If the govt chose to do this, it would certainly remove some of the deadlines and would allow more students to work from home.

I am not sure how children might feel about it given that they have been working so hard towards these exams, and the concerns that teacher awarded grades will not be worth much in the real world when they come to seek employment.

It really is hard to come up with a plan that is fair to all, be that teacher awarded grades, earlier exams run like mocks, content removed from the exams. The longer it all goes on the more complicated it becomes! I really feel particularly for children in years 11 and 13.

Teachers and pupils from Y10 upwards ought to be prioritised for vaccination.

People need to move away from education being used as a form of childcare

From an education point of view - rotas are needed. Normal curriculum needs to be allowed to be altered - as long as learning and progress is being made. People need to stop stressing about end of year expectations. As long as children are in learning, making progress and not being turned off from learning. It’s better then having other year groups out with nothing and will help with everyone’s mental health. Ramp up online learning and get out tablets/devices to help go aid when they are not in school. When this shit show calms down, actually fund schools properly to aid proper interventions.

Then in addition to this - look at the childcare aspect - support working parents if they need to take time off work (similar to furlough)

Education should rightly be a priority but it should not be kept open at the expensive of other industry’s. Everything is too black and white at the moment. Schools can’t operate in a normal way. Schools shouldn’t be fully closed and certain kids from year groups not setting foot back in the classrooms.

@TheUnwindingCableCar

At primary schools I think something needs to be done about parents. The kids at my sons school seem to be doing ok but the vast majority of parents can't seem to follow basic rules. The place is crowded with people stood about chatting to each other blocking pathways and gates and huffing when you ask them to move aside.

This. I'm School Sec in a small independent primary. I see parents standing shoulder to shoulder chatting to each other; playdates, sleepovers and child collections by other parents have continued throughout. Parents are currently on long haul and short haul holidays, just like when they went skiing in February and March. Parents sending children in with anything from a cough/cold to a tummy bug, then I have to ring and ask them to collect them and get huffed at or 'I thought I might get a call to collect'. Don't get me wrong, most of the parents are very friendly, but at my school they behave like untrained labradors doing exactly what suits them. Doesn't stop them proclaiming to be key workers either to send their children in during spring lockdown...Nope, selling Usborne books from home doesn't qualify. Nor does being an academic Dr as one mum tried to pass herself off as a medical Dr. My Head is good, but too afraid of losing school fees to really challenge some risky behaviour.

Rotas to allow for social distancing. Masks too. Blended learning was at least worth a try. Then again social distancing wouldn't have helped the kids who have suffered due to lack of social interaction and before September lots of posters were saying they'd refuse to send their children in if primaries attempted social distancing or their child had to wear a mask. The of course there was the arguments about childcare if rotas were used. There's a group of people adamant ALL children must be in school and they're not willing to accept changes to make it safer.

I'd personally supports rotas, masks and social distancing to help reduce the community spread. I've only sent mine in for social contact with their peers. Neither missed out on education while they were home, they did everything asked of them and then more from their curriculums.

The majority of children of all ages need full time, on site education to achieve their full potential across a broad range of subjects.

Even noblegiraffe hasn't been arguing for blended learning - or not that I've seen.

We have a vaccine so this should now be a relatively short term problem.

I would:

• Take a full, 6 week holiday now for all students and staff.
• Have as full a lockdown as we possibly can.
• For those who still need childcare - use school buildings staffed by paid, DBS checked volunteers such as students on gap years, those who have lost jobs and those who work in education but don't want to have 6 weeks off. It is possible to fast track DBS checks if the will is there.
• Go back to school nearly as normal in April.
• Do the Spring Term in July and August.
• Have public exams in July

It would make for a really shit year. But I think it would work.

@SuperbGorgonzola

I hear what you're saying. My DD is Year 11 and I work at her (state) school.

I'm incredibly proud of my colleagues as I really don't think we could have done anymore to provide the best possible provision, but since they went back Year 11 have been pretty much continually assessed as a belt and braces in case the govt suddenly pulls the rug on GCSEs at the last minute.

My DD is very bright and hard working and predicted good grades but she is desperately hoping they will cancel the exams as they are all under so much confusion and stress with no guaranteed outcome anyway.

@SaltyAF I’m afraid our school provided precisely 6 hours of teaching for my Y12 child, at the time, between March-July. That is fact and not ludicrous bullshit.

Yes I have taken this up with the school and DFE.

minty I agree. I teach secondary English and while we are primed and ready to go online at the drop of a hat, it's no replacement really for in person teaching and I don't think it gives the students much confidence.

We're (meant to be) doing a set of Y11 mocks in late Feb as usual, but as we've still got the last bit of new content to cover in January, it leaves barely any time for revision lessons and I know students won't be happy if those mocks were used for their final grades, as was the case last year.

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable

Typical teacher response, a profession who can put no foot wrong, I'm not arguing with a stranger online about what service we received, and we did receive it, and I know I'm not alone - as a profession you seem to be totally blind to the fact that some schools were shite.

In any other profession said teachers would have been fired, but oh no, Bella t the protected species that is the teacher.

You literally are arguing with a stranger online though. Don't post idiotic comments if you don't want them challenged.

As much as I want to help, @manicinsomniac, I'm not taking my unpaid leave in the miserable January lockdown months so I can work through July and August. Absolutely nothing has been out in place to protect school staff for the last four months and we're not on the lost for a vaccination. There is no goodwill.

(and teacher bashing on Mumsnet has been as bad as any Daily Mail thread)

iamusuallybeingunreasonable um, I'm not a teacher.

But I do know that schools haven't been closed for 9 months of this year.

Three months for total, out-of-the-ordinary school closure at the most, although some years went back on 1 June. No blanket school closures in the autumn term, although some have had to close due to staff sickness and some children have had multiple periods of self-isolation.

@SaltyAF

As much as I want to help, *@manicinsomniac*, I'm not taking my unpaid leave in the miserable January lockdown months so I can work through July and August. Absolutely nothing has been out in place to protect school staff for the last four months and we're not on the lost for a vaccination. There is no goodwill.

There you have it, we all have to sacrifice but you want your cake and to eat it too

Um, no. SaltyAF wants the terms and conditions of her contract of employment to remain as they are.

Do you really want a six week holiday from school now iamusuallybeingunreasonable?

manicinsomniac I do think your idea about childcare for working parents if schools need to close is a good one though.

It’s quite refreshing to read such an intelligent discussion from thoughtful and considerate people (not you - accusatory and argumentative poster).
I’m a secondary teacher. I really want them all in and to teach them, but it’s not possible.
We need classes of 15 maximum, no moving around the school or mixing outside of those 15, teachers to completely distance from students, more hand washing enforced.
Plus about one extra week with no students in to give us a good circuit break.
Seems like that last one is happening for secondary, have you seen the leak in the TES today?!

@christinarossetti19

Um, no. SaltyAF wants the terms and conditions of her contract of employment to remain as they are.

Do you really want a six week holiday from school now iamusuallybeingunreasonable?

Don't mind either way, as this is clearly a seasonal illness, may warrant consideration as this disease isn't going anywhere

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable, true to your name, you seem to be telling yourself that the risks school staff have taken over the last months are no hardship. You are deluded.