SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

Vaccinate teachers/TAs.
Masks for children and teachers (inc primary)
Half the class in half learning at home. Ventilation.
Better hand washing facilities.

[quote SaltyAF]@iamusuallybeingunreasonable, true to your name, you seem to be telling yourself that the risks school staff have taken over the last months are no hardship. You are deluded.[/quote]
Whatever Sally, if it makes you feel better about things you go with that

@SaltyAF

As much as I want to help, *@manicinsomniac*, I'm not taking my unpaid leave in the miserable January lockdown months so I can work through July and August. Absolutely nothing has been out in place to protect school staff for the last four months and we're not on the lost for a vaccination. There is no goodwill.

I think this is a refreshingly honest post, and I suspect you're not the only teacher / member of school staff who feels like this.

Haven't RTFT, but DD goes to a 6th form college where they have a really good set up. There are two three hour lessons per day, a two week timetable, and two thirds of lessons are in college, one third online plus free periods. Kids only in college when they have a lesson, but anyone who doesn't have online access can book to use a computer in college. Masks to be worn outside of lessons. There have been cases, but not too many having to isolate as a result, and those that do can still attend lessons online. With 4000 students I don't think that's bad, but whether it's transferable to secondary/primary is another matter.

@BelleSausage

I think the answer is already out there. It was debated in July and some quite vocal selfish people have the government and excuse not to do it- because it would cost money.

1. Rotas
2. investment in online teaching branches in secondaries for vulnerable kids and families who want online.
3. extra child care settings in ‘nightingale’ centres to support childcare for working parents.
4. social distancing in schools provided by the above.

This. Schools have always been perfect environments for this virus. The shut them/don't shut them options both cost a lot more in health and economy than the numerous shades of grey in between. It costs a bit upfront to do an in-between option and government have just stuck two fingers up at schools and teachers throughout this, whilst pretending they give a toss about education.

@MooPointCowsOpinion

It’s quite refreshing to read such an intelligent discussion from thoughtful and considerate people (not you - accusatory and argumentative poster). I’m a secondary teacher. I really want them all in and to teach them, but it’s not possible. We need classes of 15 maximum, no moving around the school or mixing outside of those 15, teachers to completely distance from students, more hand washing enforced. Plus about one extra week with no students in to give us a good circuit break. Seems like that last one is happening for secondary, have you seen the leak in the TES today?!

I teach secondary in an independent school - the measures you have listed here are pretty much all in place in my school. We had minimal disruption last term, very few cases in comparison with other schools. It works. All it needs is money I'm afraid, money that the government doesn't seem to want to spend 🤷‍♀️.

Forgot to say, they are not going into college at all the first week of term, and that was decided weeks ago.

iamusuallybeingunreasonable wow, so you can rustle up childcare at at the drop of a hat?

I think childcare hubs for younger children are a good idea. There will still be more chances of transmission than if they were at home, but much fewer than in schools and families with both parents working either at home or out of it really do need this, even if they only need a part time place.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

I'm actually a bit teary that so many people have included not fining or removing the place of a child kept at home because of an ECV family member. There are a couple of us banging on about this but it's nice to see it being included.

Anyway, pulling myself together...
Yes split rotas to reduce overcrowding, masks, online provision wherever possible. Making the vaccine available to teachers. SI in addition to testing at secondary.
I really like the idea of putting lessons on iPlayer. Hopefully enough teachers would be willing to do it to provide a full curriculum nationally.

I think it is beyond disgusting that after months of shielding, CV parents/teachers were forced into such a dangerous situation. The stress of dealing with that everyday must have been awful. Completely shameful and sickening.

Salty I agree it would be miserable and I wouldn't want to do it every year. I'd go it as a one off this year though. Especially if the alternative is online learning, rotas and unpredictable short term closures.

I'd rather have proper school at the wrong time than this weird mess at the right time.

My subjects are practical ones though so I think I hate online learning more than academic subject teachers do.

Thing is @manic, it didn't have to be this way now. With the funding for mitigations we've been shouting for, for months now, we could have been ready to go with a workable solution. I'm not prepared to give up my summer having been shat on so consistently for all that time.

My DD spent the first lockdown on her laptop in her room. I wasn't able to supervise her as I was on my laptop in a different room in endless Skype meetings. DH was working all hours in retail.

At the end of lockdown we got DD's report that said she'd missed loads of assignments and had dropped a long way behind. Nobody told us at the time. She didn't know how to submit work on paper via the internet, and the maths website she needed wouldn't let her in. As she has SEN she had no clue how to sort it out.

I feel guilty that I didn't have time to help her but I also have SEN and was getting majorly stressed at having to WFH. It was a horrible situation.

School has managed the bubbles really well since September and DD has missed no lessons at all. At one point she was one of only 5 pupils in her class as others were isolating.

No way do I want to return to remote learning because it doesn't work for children with SEN, or parents who have no choice but to work, and especially for a combination of the two. I have worked in schools and i know that mine isn't alone in finding remote working a challenge.

• Where uni students can study from parental home, require them to do so till March (not practical subjects)
• Provide resources for online learning (even if not ‘live’ teaching) to all who want it, and can access it.
• remove penalties for staying out of school for ECV families until April.
• option of half days/rota provision on a school by school basis so kids get access to teachers regularly but social distancing possible.
• vaccinations for all school staff who want it, prioritised over retired / non working vulnerable people, so that schools can stay open.

So many of these suggestions have already been implemented in small private schools. Our school has really small bubbles, the children spend a lot of time outdoors all year round, open windows when inside and approx 1 third of the children opted to stay at home to protect vulnerable family members without the fear of getting a fine.

Some of these measures can be implemented by any school - eg allowing children to work from home if their parents require it. Others can’t be achieved without investment. Even rotas require investment - who pays for the extra cleaning required if schools aren’t given more money?

Makes me so cross how much money has been wasted this year - from vanity projects like Nightingale hospitals to the number of people accepting furlough and then getting another full time job! Give more funding to state schools and let Head teachers decide how to spend it.

Online learning is the lazy approach from a government unwilling to invest in schools. It may work for a minority of children, but we are kidding ourselves if we believe online learning is a truly viable option for more than the odd week or two.

EnidBlyton A third of your families opted to stay at home? Really? Despite the school fees?! I'm also at a small independent school where children can (and do!) miss school for any reason with no fines but we've only had one child out of 300 opt for remote learning this term. Are you in an area with high rates? I'll be interested to see if my school's armttendamce is very different this term. We had no cases last term and things were starting to feel quite normal by the end of term but we broke up on 11th December and are now in tier 4 so I'm sure January will be very different if we do go back.

Salty I'm really not sure about that. Do you think it would have been possible to genuinely make schools Covid secure and provide full time education for all? I'm unconvinced. My school had many of the measures requested on here and we did escape getting any cases. But I'm fairly sure that was just luck. If a child or adult had brought the virus in, it would still have had every opportunity to spread like crazy.

throughabushbackwards, I am not convinced that isn't luck. My DH's private school was the first school in our now tier 4 area to have to close because of an out of control outbreak. The girls' school then toppled too.

Even noblegiraffe hasn't been arguing for blended learning - or not that I've seen.

Nope, and I’m always touted as such an extremist. Thanks for actually reading my posts manic!

This new strain could change things though. If it does turn out that it does simply rampage through classrooms and ignore masks, then it might be necessary to implement some social distancing measures that would require rotas of some sort.

A delay to the start of school and a keen eye on the infection rates and the conditions of any outbreaks to learn more about it is a good thing.

@ScarletZebra No way do I want to return to remote learning because it doesn't work for children with SEN, or parents who have no choice but to work, and especially for a combination of the two
It's not fair to make that a blanket statement. Dd has SEN and we worked all the way through lockdown at home but she actually thrived emotionally and academically.

Yes I was quite surprised it was so high - perhaps not quite a third overall, but I know we had 10 children return to school in Y1 back in June, and 5 didn’t. It’s a small school! Of the 5 that didn’t, it was because their fathers are older in a couple of cases, but actually two children had returned to other countries at the start of lockdown and couldn’t return to England. So it was logistics as well as vulnerability which kept numbers lower. Not really to do with covid cases, as we live in a rural area with low covid. The rate has increased around here recently so will be interesting to see how we fare this term. We may have been lucky at avoiding covid so far.

Thanks, Enid - interesting. I didn't count our international students actually as they have withdrawn so we aren't providing learning for them. I suppose that is another 15 or so.

I think the idea of shifting terms is a good one but is very unpopular with parents and teachers.

The summer break could be cut to three weeks and Easter to one week. That alone would give breathing space if those weeks were brought forward to January.

[quote PastMyBestBeforeDate]**@ScarletZebra* No way do I want to return to remote learning because it doesn't work for children with SEN, or parents who have no choice but to work, and especially for a combination of the two*
It's not fair to make that a blanket statement. Dd has SEN and we worked all the way through lockdown at home but she actually thrived emotionally and academically.[/quote]
Yes blanket statements allike this aren't helpful. Ds has complex needs and has been remote learning since half term - he too has thrived. In the first lockdown it was harder to get him to work, because there was almost no work set by school and very little communication. This last term has been a huge improvement. I'm aware this isn't the case for all students with SEN, but I have friends who have found similar as well as friends whose children found it hard.

@Phlip

I think the idea of shifting terms is a good one but is very unpopular with parents and teachers.

The summer break could be cut to three weeks and Easter to one week. That alone would give breathing space if those weeks were brought forward to January.

This would be difficult to do logistically as term dates are set out so far in advance. For example I have a holiday booked (and paid for!) for the end of July 2021 (moved from July 2020). I was only able to move it as TUI offered all customers a free change of date. I’m not sure my LEA would reimburse me for a cancelled holiday!

Ds cannot learn remotely. School have never provided anything during isolation periods because they also think it is impossible, although I more concerned about the anxiety of change leading to the enormous distress it did last time.