Do you judge people for 'minor' rule breaks?

[Light233]

So ten months into a pandemic- whether you agree with the harshness of the rules or not- I think most people would agree that the average person is likely to struggle with lockdown fatigue and wavering compliance.

So my question is, do you judge people for minor rule breaks? ie:

• someone seeing their partner who lives in another household, indoors (whether this be for mental health, or the fact most adult romantic relationships require physical contact)
• parents visiting uni students in halls
• grown adults visiting elderly parents who are lonely and isolated

If you think about it, if you live in some places up North, it's been illegal to see your partner who you don't live with for six months, providing you're not in a support bubble. And I know you can see people outdoors, but that's not conducive to a normal relationship. Or, in the case of the elderly, not healthy or comfortable.

So would you judge people for the above rule breaks, if it was genuinely they only tine they mixed with another household? And there is no support bubble?

This thread is mostly pointless, however I am simply wondering if anyone else is finding it hard now!

The above scenarios are all ones I know people in real life have done and I do not judge them. Apart from that, they wear masks, limit contact and mostly WFH.

LitPeach has a walks in the park and gin obsession. I've seen at least one other thread with her on about this.

Thought it all seemed familiar!! Especially the dont leave the house..for gin..or anything cries

Nope, no judgement. I haven't seen DP very much since March, its bloody hard but he needs to be careful so he can see his elderly parents and I am a teacher with school aged kids so quite a high risk factor. If he sees me, then he can't go to his parents' for 10 days. When we did get a chance though, we went to stay in a T2 hotel from a T3 area. My parents are also elder, but help me all the time with childcare and have chosen to mix freely with me and the kids since the summer. Total lockdown is not possible or desirable long term and will not kill / eradicate or stop the virus. 100% effort should be in the direction of beefing up the NHS resources and staffing so it can cope and we should then get back to "normal". If, like my MIL, and peaches you want to incarcerate yourself forever and have the financial and mental resources to do so, feel free.
I've been pretty disgusted by some posters on mn over the last months - especially those who castigate people in relationships for seeing each other "for a shag" and "risking lives so you can see your boyfriend" like we're 15 or something. As others have said before me, this year has not been "the same boat" for all of us. There are many many factors that make each person's ability to keep all the rules different - not helped by the bonkers inconsistency, ever changing and grey area rules vs guidance and the hypocrisy of the likes of Cummings. Absolutely applaud anyone who applies some critical bloody thinking and doesn't cause heartache by refusing to have 7 people instead of 6 at a gathering or whatever it is.

No

Minor infractions having considered the risk in a reasonable way?

No, I don't judge.

Being a dick and putting people at risk without their knowledge - judging.

Not considering risk in a reasonable way (like the MIL in another thread who visited family with COVID symptoms and then got a taxi home) - judging!

I've broken the rules for childcare but what can I do? Quit work and live on the streets 🙄

I wouldn't judge. Many people I know have done minor rule breaking as have we. We allowed DD2 to come home from her house share on the 19th (arranged way before the recent restrictions were brought in) so she wouldn't have to be alone.

@umpteennamechanges

Minor infractions having considered the risk in a reasonable way?

No, I don't judge.

Being a dick and putting people at risk without their knowledge - judging.

Not considering risk in a reasonable way (like the MIL in another thread who visited family with COVID symptoms and then got a taxi home) - judging!

This my issue...we’ve some family members who actively lie about where they have been/who they’ve been seeing and then expecting to mix, insofar as it’s been allowed with other family members who’ve been sticking to the rules because they believe in doing. When they’ve been caught out they claim they don’t understand the rules (bollocks) and or lie some more to try and cover it up. They then become hysterical that people may not then want to go anywhere near them.

I wouldn’t judge if people involved are really struggling with mental health issues but I might judge people in relationship meeting indoors for physical contact. The same with child in uni, it can be very tricky, especially for first years, so the visit might be essential. However I would expect people to try different approaches.

I suppose it’s just a theoretical question on MN. Firstly we rarely know all circumstances. Secondly in real life whatever I think I keep it to myself.
This pandemic did changed how I saw some people but it wasn’t a big surprise tbh, the signs were already there. And I’m not going to tell them that our relationship has changed because of their visit to their partner or trip to London last week, no way. I would just distance myself a bit further.

I visit my parents in their home on occasions. They're both in their 80s and often it's to help with things like my dad's computer not being able to print or dropping things off. It helps them to be able to do things online and by post rather than going into the bank etc. I also rarely go out other than a weekly food shop to try to minimise the risk of infecting them. They've now been vaccinated too. But it's still breaking the rules.

greenlynx can I ask why you would judge a couple for meeting indoors, after 10 months of this? I'm talking about a serious adult couple who cannot or will not merge homes for financial / practical / child welfare reasons. You seriously expect people to maintain their relationship in that scenario? When the actual risk to them is minimal and certainly no greater than if they did live under the same roof, there is no rational reason for them not to meet indoors. It's not just about sex.. Its cooking together, watching something, playing a game, being in each others lives. To prevent that for Covid risk is disproportionate and I applaud the Scots for realising it.

Shielding people were advised to shield even from their partners and to eat and sleep separately and try not to be in the same room.

Some of the advice is very hard to live with and I don't judge anyone who is doing their best.

Depends on the extent. We had dp's dad in our garage a few days ago. It was hammering it down and it was the only way we could see him with the doors wide open. I certainly wouldn't judge for people doing what they can under the circumstances.
Our new next door neighbours have had visitor after visitor over the last week, all going inside for several hours. I'm more pissed off about the visitors constantly blocking our driveway, but I'm wearing my big judgey pants. Their constant slamming of doors isn't helping me not judge either 🙄

I have been surprised by the number of friends on SM who have mixed households (legally) on Christmas Day, but these have included school age kids and grandparents, all hugging etc. Some have been large and cramped looking gatherings.

We had my dm who lives alone over and I found it very stressful worrying that one of my dcs or us may be asymptomatic and unintentionally pass it on. She had no one to spend it with, and I would have felt so bad leaving her alone but was worried about the potential risk. I tried to maintain distance and get fresh air etc but now seeing other people’s photos I feel a bit foolish.

I really struggled to relax and wonder why no one else feels like this when meeting with vulnerable people indoors.

First lock down I followed all the rules and judged those who didn’t but now? Nope. The rules make no sense they are no enforced the number are climbing.

If you expect me to stand in a crowded playground and send my children into school but not see my mum you are having laugh.

I judge PIL for making us feel guilty for following the rules.
I judged MIL today for telling DH she'd been crying all Christmas when she'd had the Christmas she planned including hosting two families and the same Christmas she has virtually every other year.

No judgement for minor rule breaks here.

I'm in a single parent bubble with a friend and their child. We go on a lot of outdoor walks and I imagine some people see 2 women with 2 kids and think 'rule break' rather than 'support bubble'

My bubble has quite literally saved my sanity these past months and I feel incredibly fortunate to have this support. If another family are at breaking point and need to go out to meet with others but are not fortunate enough to fall into a support bubble category I have no issue with them doing so.

My tolerance of birthday parties/house parties etc is totally different.

I do wish people wouldn’t say they’re in a support bubble when they’re not. Eg a childcare bubble where the parents go into the home of the grandparents and have a cup of tea. You’re not a childcare bubble as you’re breaking the rule of not entering the house. You’re just seeing your parents.

Similarly a married friend with older children seeing both her parents together and calling it a support bubble. It’s not. Just own it.

I do wish people wouldn’t say they’re in a support bubble when they’re not. Eg a childcare bubble where the parents go into the home of the grandparents and have a cup of tea. You’re not a childcare bubble as you’re breaking the rule of not entering the house. You’re just seeing your parents.

The point is the rules are stupid in that respect. My parents are my "childcare bubble" (not that I've ever referred to them as such in real life) and my children are often in their house for 7 or 8 hours at a time. It's breaking the rules for me to go in and have a cup of tea when I pick them up, but that just seems a bit stupid to me given that the chances of us all contracting it off each other would be fairly high anyway. My mum is also a teacher in a school of over 500 children (with no PPE necessary of course). Sometimes our rules feel a bit like a lottery where Mark Drakeford pulled out random words and put them into law.

Dd (18) and her boyfriend are seeing each other indoors over the Christmas holidays. They've both tested negative for Covid after having to isolate after contact with someone who tested positive at school, so they're pretty safe now. Much safer than when they were each seeing hundreds of people per day at school... 🙄

And I'm thinking about her mental health. She distanced from her bf the whole first lockdown.

[quote LitPeach]@Nicknacky

Leaving home unnecessarily in the middle of a global pandemic is highly selfish behaviour that explains why the virus has not yet been eradicated.[/quote]
Can we go in the garden under your imaginary rules or do we have to stay inside with the doors and Windows shut? You never know when you might see a neighbour and what would you do then?

No I don’t judge other people. Everyone needs to get through this the best they can and have a proportional attitude to risk.

People in general need to be kinder and less judgmental

I judge some things and not others. Biggest thing which really got to me wasn't really a lockdown rule break, just flagrant taking advantage re key worker provision when schools were physically shut. Every parent struggled. I'm possibly a key worker as a civil servant and was working on COVID response back in the spring, but from home. As a result myself snd colleagues all got a letter to share with schools which may have meant we could use key worker provision. None of us did, and coped with kids at home, including a team member who is single parent as schools all made it clear key worker provision was for those who needed to work outside of home and also where this was the case for both parents. Anyway a friend of mine who works for the nhs in office Job part time, whose husband is not a key worker, pleaded to her school and had her kids in there from end may time, and she'll do the same again. Really annoyed me especially as my colleague who was struggling alone wasn't so cheeky. My husband is not a key worker snd took the hit, other parents did the same. That annoyed me more than lock down breaks if I'm honest even though I'm guessing other rule breaking would have spread the virus more.

I've broken rules since April right from going for a run for my exercise, a walk with the DCs for their exercise and an extra walk at 10pm when we saw not a soul other than bats and owls because I was trying to tire out under exercised children. Bonus, they know more about star constellations than they did in mid March. I also decided in June that any accessible play equipment was fair game by then and the near non-existent risk of spreading a virus that I had negligible exposure to was outweighed by staving off depression in a 7yo who hadn't interacted with a friend in 3cminths. It was around that time I ended up pissed on a friend's sofa because the risk of hypothermia from sitting outside in torrential rain, and the risk of depression from having interracted with no one other than DH, a 9yo with ASD and a 7yo for 3 months was making me reach the point of random sobbing. That was the week that it becamr clear that we had 3 more long isolated months before the DCs could get back to school.

I went into DM's house and sat over 2m away from her after legally sitting at the same table in a cafe earlier in the day.

I've broken the rule of 6 because it makes no odds whether we play by the rule book and split 2x families of 4 on a walk, or just walk together. Arguably it would be less illegal to leave some kids at home if we're that bothered about the precise rule of law...

I'm a SAHM. I've lost my volunteering communities. I spend the day listening to DH having single sided phone conversations- he's talked out. I don't get the benefit of any bubbles. DS being 9 is too old to count as a bubble for his SENs. Once a week, I go to the supermarkets late in the evening when they are very quiet. My legal access to physical company is very poor, and occasionally going for a walk or sitting in shit weather does not hit the spot.

I can name one person I know who has had the virus and I last saw her in March.
My risk of being exposed to the virus is very low and my breeches of the rules have been very low risk and have often been the fine line that have kept me from surviving this vacuous shadow existence without having to bother the NHS for anti-depressants.

The virus doesn't give a shit about people following the rules, it spreads on person to person proximity. I've had very little of that, and I don't judge other people trying to survive this hell with some sanity in tact.