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Original poster

Support bubble and overnight stays in tier 4

125 replies

redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 21:45

Is this allowed still? I am being told it's not allowed but I can't find a source for this. That if you're in a support bubble you can still stay somewhere overnight even if you're in tier 4 sorry if already been asked I'm panicking.

OP posts:
TheLette · 19/12/2020 21:49

I have the same query - government website says visiting support bubble is still allowed but separately suggests that overnight stays with support bubble aren't allowed. I tried to look at the legislation to work it out, but erm, it doesn't yet exist! Or at least is not published as far as I can tell.

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 21:52

Thanks for the reply I know that visiting is ok it's the overnight thing. I think I understand the government guidelines as not allowed but cannot find specific information on support bubbles being able to stay overnight in tier 4.
I think that this is no longer possible from tomorrow

OP posts:
chillychicken · 19/12/2020 22:10

This is the wording on the gov website. It’s so badly written, I can’t actually work out if it’s allowed or not. I think it is but I’m not 100%.

Tier 4
Staying away from home overnight
You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

CabinClose · 19/12/2020 22:13

It is allowed. That’s what that paragraph means.

lifestooshort123 · 19/12/2020 22:17

You can stay overnight in a support bubble even in tier 4. It is there in the official blurb but it is not very well worded as a double negative is used - something like "you CAN'T stay overnight with someone who ISN'T in your support bubble'.

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:19

This is how I read it if I take the caravan but out

This includes staying with:
anyone you do not live with or:
are in a support bubble with.

There are then seven exceptions ruled below which have no mention of support bubbles? Confused
I read it as not allowed still?

OP posts:
MaggieFS · 19/12/2020 22:20

It's appallingly worded and I can't believe they haven't updated the wording. I got hoiked over the coals on mn a few weeks ago for misunderstanding it - it was handy to have asked!

SarahMused · 19/12/2020 22:22

You can travel, visit and stay. You’re considered to be one household still.

InTheLongGrass · 19/12/2020 22:23

I read that as
Staying away from home overnight
You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone ( unless you live with them or are in a support bubble with them)

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:25

I want to read it that way but it doesn't say unless?

OP posts:
NotAnotherUserNumber · 19/12/2020 22:27

@redribbonbow

This is how I read it if I take the caravan but out

This includes staying with:
anyone you do not live with or:
are in a support bubble with.

There are then seven exceptions ruled below which have no mention of support bubbles? Confused
I read it as not allowed still?

It could mean “anyone you do not (live with or are in a support bubble with)”, but then the grammar is poor.
NotAnotherUserNumber · 19/12/2020 22:28

Actually on second thoughts the grammar feels wrong either way. It is poorly worded.

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:28

@NotAnotherUserNumber so could it not also mean not allowed for support bubbles too because the grammar is so poor?

OP posts:
Persipan · 19/12/2020 22:29

That wording, once you cut out the extraneous bits, seems to me to say it's not allowed: "holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes ... staying with anyone you ... are in a support bubble with."

Whether that's what they intended it to say, who knows, but that's how I read it.

TildaTurnip · 19/12/2020 22:29

I read that as ‘live with + support bubble’. So I think you can.

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:29

You answered my question @NotAnotherUserNumber I'm so confused

OP posts:
Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:30

@Persipan that's exactly how I read it

OP posts:
PostmanSplat · 19/12/2020 22:30

This is from the website which I think is clear

‘If you live in a Tier 4 area, you must follow the rules below from Sunday 20 December. This means that you cannot meet other people indoors, including over the Christmas period, unless you live with them, or they are part of your existing support bubble. Outdoors, you can only meet one person from another household. These rules will not be relaxed for Christmas.’

That means that your support bubble can stay overnight

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:31

@PostmanSplat there are separate guidance for overnight stays

OP posts:
BuffaloCauliflower · 19/12/2020 22:32

I’ve read the guidance multiple times and it can be read both ways. It’s really confusingly worded.

Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:35

I'm wondering if it's deliberately ambiguous now

OP posts:
BamboozledandBefuddled · 19/12/2020 22:39

It's terrible wording but you can stay overnight. If you rewrite that last sentence of 'This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with' like this, it makes sense:

This includes:
Staying in a second home or caravan
Staying with anyone you do not live with
Staying with anyone you are not in a support bubble with

Twistiesandshout · 19/12/2020 22:41

@redribbonbow

I'm wondering if it's deliberately ambiguous now
That is my gut feel
Original poster
redribbonbow · 19/12/2020 22:41

@BamboozledandBefuddled where is the word 'not' though? In your last line regarding support bubbles

OP posts:
Kazmerelda · 19/12/2020 22:42

I t should be made clearer. This could be a nightmare for elderly or vulnerable people who have had family plan seasonal care and now can’t get it if no overnight stays.

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