Support bubble and overnight stays in tier 4

[redribbonbow]

Is this allowed still? I am being told it's not allowed but I can't find a source for this. That if you're in a support bubble you can still stay somewhere overnight even if you're in tier 4 sorry if already been asked I'm panicking.

Tier 4
Staying away from home overnight
You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

@Underhisi

I think they deliberately included support bubbles. Looking across MN so many spurious bubbles are appearing that it's like someone doused the site in Fairy Liquid.

“Personally forming a support bubble hundreds of miles away smacks of Dominic Cummings logic to me”

The whole point is that if you don’t have support nearby you can form that bubble with someone further away. People can’t help eg living far away from their parents who need support, or from whom they need support. The alternative may be relying on local services which are under enormous strain. Just because you seem to think that people are doing it for larks and japes and to get round rules doesn’t mean that they are.

There needed to be a comma or a not to mean over nights are ok. Terrible grammar but like this.

It case this includes anyone, you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

It case this includes anyone you do not live with or are in a not support bubble with.

Or better

It case this includes everybody except those you do live with or are in a support bubble with.

The list is the exceptions for those Not in support bubbles. Support bubbles are already excepted.

The" live with or in a support bubble with "
go together. It is if you are not in either of those things.

@Sitt

Not the different between tier three abs four can be 1meter upwards so it’s not a D Cummings issue atall.
It’s defined before as local which is deliberately valid and does not answer the question.

@Underhisi

Not the way it is written
My three examples show that

@Underhisi

I have spent 4 hours reading rereading and searching. I fear you are assuming as it is not clear.

I understand it the same way as underhisi.

The sentences Justa47 wrote don't even make sense

Here.

Justa47 I’m sorry you will need to expand on that because I’m not sure what you’re trying to say

The guidance will be written in a less formal way than the actual law which in this case may make it less clear.

I am still so confused!
So DS is in a support bubble with his GF, he went to stay with her this weekend and she is now in tier 4!
Can he leave to go back to his home (tier 2), or must be stay? Should he have driven home at 11:55 last night?
Honestly I have no idea! 🤷‍♀️

@chillychicken

I also think it’s deliberately ambiguous.

I agree - it's deliberately ambiguous.

So, whatever you do you will worry and can be blamed afterwards.
Typical of this Govt sadly who have made a bad situation worse imo.

He can carry on doing what he usually does. The only difference is he will have to stick to tier 4 restrictions when he is with her.

Underhisi - thank you!!

Personally forming a support bubble hundreds of miles away smacks of Dominic Cummings logic to me
Yeah, well, when I had a baby on my own during the first lockdown I didn't see Dominic fucking Cummings coming to stay for 10 weeks to make that manageable while I couldn't see any friends or have them come round to help out. My retired dad, on the other hand, did do that. If you don't like the fact that he doesn't live super-nearby, bite me.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

Ignore the start was using iPhone it’s the end related to the lack of a comma.

The third one is clear

@Waspnest

Agreed

I was wondering the same thing and found this, which seems to clarify it... Seems clear that overnight stays with support bubbles are allowed even in tier 4.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/what-is-support-bubble-lockdown-rules-b1614605.html%3famp

@Hugstoall

I don’t think it is clear from that for their 4

Oops tier 4

Either way the government of idiots clearly can’t make things clear or simple

The whole point is that if you don’t have support nearby you can form that bubble with someone further away. People can’t help eg living far away from their parents who need support, or from whom they need support. The alternative may be relying on local services which are under enormous strain. Just because you seem to think that people are doing it for larks and japes and to get round rules doesn’t mean that they are.

I disagree. There has always been an exception for people caring for others and obviously people can offer support over the phone, zoom etc but my understanding is that the support bubble system was for people to physically be able to treat one other household as if they lived together, even hug if they liked. I think that they can still do that in Tier 4 on Christmas day. But they can't stay overnight. And like I say, I'm a cynic and think the government have done this to stop people forming bubbles to get around the overnight rule.

And I don't think people are doing it for 'laughs and japes' I think they are understandably upset at having their xmas plans wrecked but that doesn't make breaking the rules sensible or acceptable.