Support bubble and overnight stays in tier 4

[redribbonbow]

Is this allowed still? I am being told it's not allowed but I can't find a source for this. That if you're in a support bubble you can still stay somewhere overnight even if you're in tier 4 sorry if already been asked I'm panicking.

I didn't realise, as a pp said, that BJ would prefer us not to stay overnight with our bubblers. Mum has bubbled with us all along and I've assumed we're one household in 2 (very local) houses therefore we can do what we like in either of our houses. Not sure what I've written makes any sense either 😂

@ConfusedatChristmasTier4 thanks. I read your thread. I'm still confused. I will await published details tomorrow. To me I understand that support bubbles can still met but I do not agree that they can stay overnight.

It means staying with anyone you do NOT live with, or are NOT in a support bubble with, is not allowed. Staying with someone you DO live with or ARE in a support bubble with, is allowed. The ‘not’ is used once but is meant to include the ‘live with or are in a support bubble with’. Agree it’s appallingly worded.

@RoseGoldEagle gives the clearest explanation.

[quote redribbonbow]@ConfusedatChristmasTier4 thanks. I read your thread. I'm still confused. I will await published details tomorrow. To me I understand that support bubbles can still met but I do not agree that they can stay overnight. [/quote]
@redribbonbow I’m still confused too! So many saying yes and so many saying no. I really hope we’re allowed to go. Have a lovely Christmas

My support bubble lives & works in Tier 2 so I'll only see him in dire emergencies...

Following this, clarity definitely needed, really hoping an overnight stay may be allowed.....disabled dc and my support bubble was going to be a bit of respite

Yes you can stay overnight. A fixed support bubble is regarded as a single household.

Just been looking at this and it's so badly worded that it makes no sense.
Am in a bubble with a friend who is autistic. We are in different tiers. Friend is understandably concerned about breaking the rules. We spent an hour yesterday trying to figure it out.
Hoping for some official clarity later on.

Also I don't understand why you can't meet in a private garden if you're sticking to the person and distancing limits yet you can congregate in a place of worship with a bunch of people not from your household.

mobile.twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1340613257242046465

I'm on board with the idea that support bubbles transcend Tier 4 and thus you/they can visit/stay.

Support bubbles are allowed, overnight stays are not (unless you fall in the limited exemptions). Hope this helps:

So you cannot stay overnight unless you are already in a permissible support bubble and thus are a single house hold together, in which case you can stay

@GaryTheDemon One of the limited exemptions is staying overnight with your support bubble, so no that’s not a particularly helpful way of putting it.

The guidance for Tier 4 says;
Staying away from home overnight
You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

You are allowed to stay overnight away from your home if you:

are unable to return to your main residence
need accommodation while moving house
need accommodation to attend a funeral or related commemorative event
require accommodation for work purposes or to provide voluntary services
are a child requiring accommodation for school or care
are homeless, seeking asylum or a vulnerable person seeking refuge
are an elite athlete or their support staff or parent, if the athlete is under 18 and it is necessary to be outside of the home for training or competition
If you are already on holiday in a Tier 4 area, you should return to your home as soon as practical

That says to me that you can (unlike other people in Tier 4) visit people in your bubble for Christmas day but you can't stay overnight. Why would you need to? The advice is to have a local support bubble so that you can see each other frequently for support surely.

Personally forming a support bubble hundreds of miles away smacks of Dominic Cummings logic to me

The first time I read it, I read it to mean you couldn't. Then I read it again and thought it meant you could.

Honestly, that last bit about the support bubble could be interpreted either way.

They need to provide guidelines that are easier to understand about this, as it's going to affect a lot of people, as I imagine many will want to spend the day with their support bubbles.

If you're in a support bubble you are treated as being part of the same household and everyone in it can stay overnight in both houses.

I'm not sure that in tier 4 the 'being in the same household' thing applies anymore. The rules are far far stricter than in the other tiers i.e.

You must not meet socially indoors with family or friends unless they are part of your household or support bubble.

So whilst people in a support bubble CAN meet indoors, even they cannot stay overnight. IMHO.

There has been no change to the definition and rules of support bubbles. If there was there would be new guidance surrounding support bubbles which there isn't.

Tier 4
Staying away from home overnight
You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

This means you cannot stay overnight in support bubble in tier 4

The government guidance on forming a support bubble still says you can think of yourself as one household. No change.

You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

I think that counts as new guidance.

@CabinClose

That’s not what it says ( it needs a not I. The last sentence to say you can stay overnight - also terrible grammar). What it means is different.
Also what if your support bubble in in tier 3 and you are in 4?

I have spent 4 hours looking for the answers on both no clarity

@Underhisi

It has changed in Tier four. No over nights

@Waspnest

I agree

You cannot leave home for holidays or stays overnight away from your main home unless permitted by law. This means that holidays in the UK and abroad are not allowed. This includes staying in a second home or caravan, or staying with anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

It case this includes anyone you do not live with or are in a support bubble with.

That means support bubbles in tier 4 can’t now stay over night. Whether they meant that or not is a different thing.

The fact that it lists the situations when you CAN stay overnight makes it clear that the support bubble is not one of them.

Tier rules do not apply to support bubbles. Read the support bubble guidance.