Tier 4 - can I form a support bubble and go stay with my parents?

[yellowtail1]

I live in London with my DH and our 10 week old baby. Can we go and stay with my parents (who live in a tier 2 area) over Christmas by forming a support bubble and if so, how long could we stay with them for? Sorry if this is a stupid question - my head is all over the place and I’m just so confused. Can anyone help?

So own your rule breaking then. That’s your decision, but don’t kid yourself that this is allowed.

My baby was about the same age as OP’s the first time I phoned my mum in floods of tears at 10pm and asked her to come over the next day and just hold him so I could sleep. She arrived by midnight. Just because someone has not previously needed support doesn’t mean they don’t need it now.

And as for “you have a DH, you don’t need support”... I take it you’re new here, as 24 hours is all it takes to know that many, many women have utterly useless DHs who vary from not helpful to actively making things worse.

People on here are so worried about being shot down by all those who have never broken a rule in their life, so many aren’t willing to be open about their real Christmas Day plans as Iknewyouwerewaitingforme has.
There are 10000s who will be, for many various, differing, personal circumstances still be seeing family on Christmas Day. These people, many people I’ve spoken to will be taking many precautions: some isolating before Christmas Day, some getting same day test/ results prior, mixing sat spaced apart with all windows open. Not going with any symptoms or mixing with anyone clinically vulnerable.

Nobody can persuade me this is wrong or any worse than the 10000s people who raced to train stations to get away, who crammed together- zero social distancing on station concourses/ platforms/ in train carriages many not wearing masks. Passing on and getting the virus that night then spreading it to the country. All as a result of a ridiculous U-turn completely out of the blue and so poorly planned or thought out.

The panic buying from 1000s queuing in similar scenarios to buy any food for Christmas Day.

Another poster on another thread has absolutely nailed this whole issue. (I'm not sure if this is Mumsnet etiquette to repost someone else's comment from another thread, but it is so well written and succinctly put that it really should be read by all).

@Yokey
*It's heartening to see so many posting in defence of our civil liberties.

I can do without shopping, restaurants and meeting friends, don't mind face masks and keeping my distance, but unless it's an event of an apocalyptic proportions, I believe the right to be with family is very basic. People are having to sneak about, lie, and face being shamed by friends. For seeing loved ones! It's positively Orwellian. Our children and children's children will find it astonishing.

I've already been called selfish, silly, ignorant etc on MN by people who cannot accept that it is legitimate to have a different opinion on this matter. It's all pretty fanatic. Who would ever have believed that it's controversial to disagree with a law that makes it illegal to see loved ones?!*

Who would ever have believed that it's controversial to disagree with a law that makes it illegal to see loved ones?!

When seeing loved ones can put them and yourselves at danger of ill health?

Everyone has the right to their own opinions as you state below. But surely you must accept that defying this law/guidance and owning your 'civil liberties' will....if everyone chooses to do so.... spread this virus, kill thousands more and put your loved ones at risk while bringing the nhs to its knees.

So I don't think the poster on the other post has 'nailed it' at all. She has a view that it's wrong to ban seeing family. Fine to have that view-but you must also agree that if everyone saw their families then the death toll will continue to rise. And if you're also fine with that then that's a very sad place to be

But as I posted below, legally the OP in this instance can see her parents. She has just had a baby and is in poor mental health.

The question of morality and weighing up whether she should is a different matter and only she can answer that

Who would ever have believed that it's controversial to disagree with a law that makes it illegal to see loved ones?!
Governments have to decide on balance what's for the greater good for everyone in the country bearing in mind that many will be innately selfish and do the maximum allowed (or more); they may not get it right, but that is the job of government. It's very hard for many people, including some vulnerable people, to tell family that they are not welcome in the house. The law gives a decent excuse for those who would otherwise find it hard to do. It is also about protecting others; your family's use of a couple of extra hospital beds for a few days may seem an acceptable risk to you. It isn't an acceptable risk for the person having a heart attack with delayed treatment, nor for hospital staff who aren't seeing their own families and put themselves at risk for others. All for the sake of waiting a couple of months before the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

Totally agree superstripeysocks.

Everyone saying “if everyone did this bla bla bla” I have this to say- the 100s people I’d see definitely boarding a train or tube carriage. Having their choice of seats but choosing to sit right opposite me, with their masks slung around their necks or below their nose. I looked in their faces- the majority just dim, vagrant, ignorant.
Those I’d always see picking fruit up, handling it, sometimes coughing over it then putting it back on shop shelves. Those bumping into me, elbowing me, breathing into my face when out and about. Yes: if THESE twats all broke the Christmas Day rules we would be in trouble yes.

Call me arrogant or whatever you like, but I’m not one of them. I possess common sense, decency, care for others, intelligence. So as long as we are not showing symptoms. We are getting tests the day before, if negative we will go to my mothers. Who we have seen constantly over the past year. Sit in her airy room spaced apart with all windows open. But not take the sheer magic of Christmas Day away from her or the children.

We are getting tests the day before
How have you ordered private tests with guaranteed same day results? Or are you thinking it's reasonable to use NHS supplies, delaying the process for anyone actually unwell? Are you going to moan if your result takes a few days to come back?

MRex calm down dear. Getting private, same day tests entirely at our own expense. Sorry not to give you more fuel to hate and vent.

Wow, are you sure that someone with "decency, care for others, intelligence" responds like that "dear"?

MRex yes I do, to someone accusing me of wasting NHS supplies (and I pay my taxes, I am just as valid as you or any other person to get a Covid test. Better more people get tested then act accordingly than not) and then predict that I’d “moan” if my test results came back negative.
Someone’s moaning here and it’s not me!

I know a couple of families in tier 4 who are just carrying on with Xmas plans - I imagine many people will ? They have said they aren’t going to be policing it ..

It's fair to ask your plan because no, any and every taxpayer shouldn't waste NHS tests if they are healthy and not asked to do so, it is public healthcare not entertainment.

I'm just really interested that you say you are taking it on Christmas Eve and have a guarantee from the private company that the test will be returned same day. I've only seen guarantees for next day, which could be evening of Christmas Day. Are you sure you have that in writing and won't be disappointed if they don't confirm until say 9pm Christmas Day?

@MRex

It's fair to ask your plan because no, any and every taxpayer shouldn't waste NHS tests if they are healthy and not asked to do so, it is public healthcare not entertainment.

I'm just really interested that you say you are taking it on Christmas Eve and have a guarantee from the private company that the test will be returned same day. I've only seen guarantees for next day, which could be evening of Christmas Day. Are you sure you have that in writing and won't be disappointed if they don't confirm until say 9pm Christmas Day?

You really really need to mind your own business.

Well, at least you know now @superstripeysocks. You're welcome by the way!

Blimey there’s a lot of knickers in almighty twists over one day in one year.

This thread is out of control! OP is doing nothing wrong in terms of the law and in my opinion morally either. All you people pointing the finger and berating her cast your minds back to when you had your children and unless it was in this absolute horror of a year you can guarantee that you had support, that your partners/loved ones were able to be with you through every step and appointment during your pregnancy, you had visitors and help during those surreal early days, were able to form new friendships, attend baby groups, access decent postnatal care, turn up on a friends doorstep for a cuppa when it all got a bit much. Being a new mum is tough, being a new mum this year is beyond anything we could ever have imagined, I had my baby in July and thankfully summer offered us a degree of normality but it’s still been an absolute shock to the system, my parents are our support bubble (my husband works full time so while yes I am not a single parent I am alone with our baby for around 8 hours a day) they live an hour and a half away and if we were to be in tier 4 I would be doing exactly the same thing as OP. Covid has made some people lose the ability to have compassion and kindness for anything other than Covid and once all this is over I really hope some people understand just how vile they have been to another human being for wanting something as simple as the support of her parents and a little normality at Xmas when she is suffering from PND!

Well said @Katie517. It's odd on MN - you see posts of such breath taking meanness and hyper-criticalness you think the poster must have had an empathy bypass. I have never had a baby even in a non pandemic year yet I can appreciate how tough it must be - it's not difficult. The vast majority of you have had babies, so why can't you do the same?

FFS!

The rules have changed again. It's now only allowed to go to your support bubble on Christmas Day

@purplebunny2012

The rules have changed again. It's now only allowed to go to your support bubble on Christmas Day

Link please? I cannot find this anywhere.

I think you’re confusing Christmas bubbles and support bubbles.

You can visit your support bubble any time anywhere in the country.
You can only form a Christmas bubble in tier 1-3 and that’s only for Christmas Day.

Sorry, that should say England, not the whole country. The devolved nations have slightly differing rules.

OP I’m sorry you’re struggling. Our support bubble is 200 miles away as we live very far from family and don’t have any support locality. I’ve had bad PND and lived with my parents during the first lockdown as wasn’t coping and needed regularly CBT while DH had to work to preserve his job. We are going down after Christmas to stay with them for 4 days as part of our support bubble. It is legal and allowed- you have a child under 1 and you are allowed to cross tiers. We essentially get in the car and don’t stop for the 4 hours and then stay in when we are there (luckily they have a nice house and big garden). Some people would see it as selfish, unnecessary etc but visiting them keeps me going with two small kids and the last year. Have a nice Christmas OP 🎄

Enjoy your Christmas @Napqueen1234 .

@Katie517 - never a truer word spoken

Covid has made some people lose the ability to have compassion and kindness for anything other than Covid