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Original poster

Tier 4 - can I form a support bubble and go stay with my parents?

425 replies

yellowtail1 · 19/12/2020 16:49

I live in London with my DH and our 10 week old baby. Can we go and stay with my parents (who live in a tier 2 area) over Christmas by forming a support bubble and if so, how long could we stay with them for? Sorry if this is a stupid question - my head is all over the place and I’m just so confused. Can anyone help?

OP posts:
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8
Mirinska · 21/12/2020 21:27

@Blacksheepcat
This is the guidance relating to support bubbles
“You are permitted to leave your home to visit your support bubble (and to stay overnight with them). However, if you form a support bubble, it is best if this is with a household who live locally. This will help prevent the virus spreading from an area where more people are infected.”
Also it has to be a genuine and existing support bubble not a one off social Christmas visit.
It’s about trying to stop the spread from Tier 4 areas to the whole of the country.

PurpleDaisies · 21/12/2020 21:29

Also it has to be a genuine and existing support bubble not a one off social Christmas visit.

Where does it say that? If the op isn’t in an existing support bubble there’s nothing wrong with deciding now is the time to set one up.

Blacksheepcat · 21/12/2020 23:00

@Mirinska ...I think you’ve tagged the wrong person?? as this is exactly what I’ve been saying all along.
OP was not in an existing support bubble...she was going to form a Christmas support bubble which is no longer allowed in tier 4.
Thank you to DawnMumsnet for clarifying...maybe people will listen now. I did quote this info earlier and got slated for it for some reason?
All the rude people who have tried to tell me to I’m wrong about the rules .....I forgive you, it’s confusing but all the rules changed on the 20th. You can try and bend them and find grey areas obviously (I’ve never been one to obey rules typically) but in this case, for the sake of keeping your family and loved ones safe...just stay home. As I said before, OP can enjoy time with her new baby without worrying about Christmas (the baby won’t know any different) and she’s not alone or in need of support as she has her husband there supporting her too. 2 parents, 1 baby = lovely first Christmas together. Have a lovely Christmas OP and everyone ✌️

PurpleDaisies · 21/12/2020 23:04

OP was not in an existing support bubble...she was going to form a Christmas support bubble which is no longer allowed in tier 4.

There is no such thing as a Christmas support bubble. There are Christmas bubbles (not allowed in tier 4) and support bubbles (fine in all tiers).

There is nothing to say the op cannot form a support bubble right now since she was not previously in one.

C8H10N4O2 · 21/12/2020 23:07

Thank you to DawnMumsnet for clarifying...maybe people will listen now

Oh the irony. If they have any sense they will read the linked page instead of listening to nonsense about "Christmas support bubbles" which have never existed.

Blacksheepcat · 21/12/2020 23:53

Grin and that is why our country has it so bad.
Dear God! ‘Christmas bubble’ literally written above in DawnMumsnet’s post (only for people NOT in tier 4)
As stated before, not sure why people come on here to ask a question when they’re gonna do what they want anyway?
Hope you all get together with all your families and have a great time while you can ...not looking good for next year by the sounds of it. I despair .... Sad

Blacksheepcat · 22/12/2020 00:00

For the umpteenth time, OP is or was not in an ‘EXISTING’ support bubble...she wanted to create one for Christmas, for social reasons. So many people not being allowed to be with their families this Christmas so OP no different? She’s not on her own, she HAS SUPPORT already, a DH!!!
Anyway, we all know she’ll do it anyway so a pointless question and a pointless thread.
Merry Christmas, stay safe.

Mirinska · 22/12/2020 00:17

I’m sorry Blacksheepcat if I’ve tagged you by mistake. It sounds like we are in agreement.

superstripeysocks · 22/12/2020 00:27

@Blacksheepcat

For the umpteenth time, OP is or was not in an ‘EXISTING’ support bubble...she wanted to create one for Christmas, for social reasons. So many people not being allowed to be with their families this Christmas so OP no different? She’s not on her own, she HAS SUPPORT already, a DH!!! Anyway, we all know she’ll do it anyway so a pointless question and a pointless thread. Merry Christmas, stay safe.
You can shout all you want, you're still wrong. Doesn't matter if she is creating a new support bubble - as long as she hasn't been in one 10 prior to making the new one. And so the fuck what if it's for social reasons (though the OP has mentioned her straining mental health). It's allowed. So back up and calm down
Mirinska · 22/12/2020 00:30

I think the big message and spirit of the message is stay home and don’t travel out of or into Tier 4 areas unless absolutely essential so as to try and contain the mutant variant. That’s why so many countries have banned all travellers coming in from the UK and Scotland has banned all travellers coming in from England. It’s to stop the spread, protect the NHS and save lives. The more people that try and do what suits themselves, even if trying to make a case for technically being within the rules, like deciding to create a support bubble where one did not genuinely exist before, in order to try and justify what is really a Christmas visit, the harder it will be to stop the spread. So it’s the spirit of the message rather than gaming the rules that’s important and we need to act in the interests of the wider community not just ourselves. For example, it was within the rules to travel before the midnight cut off on leaving Tier 4, but quite obviously the crowds trying to get out of London at the stations that night created a Covid spreading environment where social distancing was impossible and then went off all round the country potentially spreading the mutant strain. It’s vital to think about everyone not just ourselves because if we don’t more people will die and we are ongoingly wrecking people’s livelihoods and the economy by having to regularly lockdown and impose restriction because of those not taking personal responsibility for their contribution to defeating the virus. And it’s depressing for those who do make sacrifices to keep to the spirit of the rules.

ChablisandCrisps · 22/12/2020 07:07

@Mirinska perfectly put.

lifestooshort123 · 22/12/2020 07:19

The OP will do what she wants and is just looking for validation on here. Don't travel out of tier 4 doesn't appear to apply to her so crack on.

Grenlei · 22/12/2020 07:23

There are a number of reasons you are allowed to leave tier 4, for work, caring responsibilities, or (as in the OPs case) for a support bubble.

There's nothing wrong with her doing what she is proposing, it's exactly why support bubbles exist, so that she can get support from her family.

ComDummings · 22/12/2020 07:28

@Grenlei

There are a number of reasons you are allowed to leave tier 4, for work, caring responsibilities, or (as in the OPs case) for a support bubble.

There's nothing wrong with her doing what she is proposing, it's exactly why support bubbles exist, so that she can get support from her family.

Worth repeating because so many people STILL aren’t getting it
ChablisandCrisps · 22/12/2020 07:43

No, we do get it! But making a new support bubble just because you can might legally be ok but is otherwise questionable! Its smacks of selfishness but of course the OP can do as she likes as technically it is ok...

ComDummings · 22/12/2020 07:54

It’s not selfish to need support after you’ve had a baby. It is not selfish to be doing OK then realise after a couple of months that you need help from your family. OP is not being selfish.

C8H10N4O2 · 22/12/2020 08:02

She’s not on her own, she HAS SUPPORT already, a DH!!!

Blacksheep, you screech and shout all you like but Christmas bubbles != support bubbles, support bubbles are not restricted to single parent households.

Instead of willfully misrepresenting the gov.uk info in order to bash a new mother withi PND how about remembering this place (used to) aspire to help new parents, not act as smug, petty minded traffic wardens inventing rules which don't exist.

TomasinaTiers · 22/12/2020 08:03

Please don’t listen to all the sanctimonious people berating your for being “selfish”

You’re not having a party, you are just trying to make it through a difficult time, one day at a time

Take care

mummabubs · 22/12/2020 08:15

I hope you've seen enough posters who do have a handle on the guidance OP- you do have the right to form a support bubble and you can travel to this and stay overnight regardless of tiers. We are due DC2 early next year, both of oursl families live 3 hours away and we have no support where we live. So we will 100% be forming a support bubble with my parents when the baby arrives. I've seen my family twice in the last year and we'd self isolated for 2 weeks before last weeks last minute removal of Christmas relaxations, as had my family. I think a lot of people will knee jerk with "you shouldn't travel", but only you know your own support needs and also what measures you will take to risk assess and reduce risk of spreading where possible. I hope you make the decision that's right for you and your family. You're entitled to form a bubble and travel if you choose to.

Iknewyouwerewaitingforme · 22/12/2020 08:34

OP, I’d do it.
We’ve had a childcare bubble with my mum and brother (both love at some address) this year so on Christmas Day we will all be going over to be with them. Both our and their house Tier4 within 20 mins of each other. As far as I can see this is definitely allowed.

PurpleDaisies · 22/12/2020 08:44

@Iknewyouwerewaitingforme

OP, I’d do it. We’ve had a childcare bubble with my mum and brother (both love at some address) this year so on Christmas Day we will all be going over to be with them. Both our and their house Tier4 within 20 mins of each other. As far as I can see this is definitely allowed.
I don’t think it is...

You can only use a childcare bubble for childcare. You cannot use a childcare bubble to mix with another household for other reasons

Presumably your mum and brother won’t be doing childcare on Christmas Day because you’ll be there as well. You could drop your children off there. It’s your decision but I don’t think the rules permit this.

Iknewyouwerewaitingforme · 22/12/2020 08:56

purpledaisies this below is the new info under Tier4.
I am going by what that says. It’s pretty vague and doesn’t go into detail. Thus like so many of these “rules” open for interpretation.

*Childcare
There are several ways that parents and carers can continue to access childcare in Tier 4 areas:

early years settings and childminders remain open, and you can continue to use these settings as normal
you can access other childcare activities (including wraparound care) where reasonably necessary to enable parents to work, seek work, attend education or training, a medical appointment or respite care
nannies will be able to continue to provide services, including in the home
parents are able to form a childcare bubble with one other household for the purposes of informal childcare, where the child is 13 or under
some households will also be able to benefit from being in a support bubble
Some youth services are able to continue, such as 1-1 youth work and support groups, but most youth clubs and groups will need to cease for this period.*

So yes, we are doing it. I’m pregnant and shattered. DH has been working 14 hour days and is close to breaking. So even on Christmas Day we could do with some help with the kids.

MRex · 22/12/2020 09:00

@Iknewyouwerewaitingforme - as @PurpleDaisies says, you can drop off the kids but the adults shouldn't be mixing, sorry. I know it seems odd because once your baby is born the rules change and you could form a support bubble with them. If it were me I'd do presents at home, then drop the kids off and go home for a nice sleep together, good excuse to do that really. Then collect the kids later to do some Christmas games when you're both full of energy.

PurpleDaisies · 22/12/2020 09:01

I read those rules. They don’t sanction mixing, only childcare. That’s pretty clear in the paragraph that I posted.

Like I said, it’s up to you. You could drop your children at your parents and have a rest while they’re there but socialising is not allowed.

Iknewyouwerewaitingforme · 22/12/2020 09:01

Ok thanks for your advice, but we are doing it as I said.