Christmas IS going to be cancelled - last minute.

[Elephant4]

Isn't it?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/boris-johnson-calls-crisis-meeting-to-discuss-response-to-new-covid-strain

They're panicking now.

@cologne4711

My mum and dad had said similar but as I said to them it’s not them who would have to live with the guilt if they got it. My 14 year old son would never, ever, recover if he thought he’d given it to his grandparents. I’m not putting the risk of that burden on my child

Firstly, that's making it all about you.

Secondly, they could give it to you.

Thirdly, unless they've been shielding since March and never go out, how would you ever know where they caught it?

I think it's up to the more vulnerable party in the family to make the call.

My parents have barely been out since March as my dad has cancer. They’ve only been to medical appointments.

My son is vulnerable as well in a different way as he’s a very sensitive boy. I had to keep him off school a couple of weeks ago as he had a panic attack about the worry he might have asymptomatically passed it to a vulnerable friend. He would not cope if he felt he’d spread it to his grandparents and given he’s in a high school of 1600 kids a day it’s more likely he’d give it to someone else than them to him.

But if you think protecting my mental health and that of my child is making it “all about me” crack on.

My parents aren’t overly fussed anyway about Christmas. If Covid wasn’t around they’d probably be on a cruise!

At this stage, I think a January lockdown is going to happen in any event. I was pissed at the last-minute restrictions on Eid and I can see them doing the same for Christmas. I cannot, however, see how they will enforce it except through guilt-tripping. The Government burned through any goodwill and authority a long time ago.

It’s not cancelled it’s just different. Just make the best of it and keep to the rules and then next year will be different.

It won’t be the households mixing on Christmas Day that’s the problem. It’s the fact that people will be out and about shopping in sales, returning gifts ,going to the supermarkets, having a coffee in town or going back to work straight afterwards before they realise their bubble infected them.

Maybe if everyone who mixed households had to quarantine or we had a strict lockdown straight after. Lots of people aren’t at work, school is out so it’s more sensible than 2 weeks into January .

'Yeah, l really don't trust Johnson and his government to do the right thing regarding lockdown'

I do. Hospitals and ICU haven't at any point (yet) being overwhelmed, that is the point of lockdowns. To keep a lid on it

Look at Wales' 'firebreak', Starmer was demanding England do the same. They're in a worse state now.

Furlough extended to May, millions chucked at the nhs, the most tests per million in Europe, nearly double that of Germany. The virus is terrible for all countries but comparing those with like for like population sizes and densities, we are in a similar position to others.

I think it's more likely that they'll announce a post Christmas lockdown than cancel Christmas easing

I agree. The fallout in Jan would take No Deal Brexit chaos off the front pages.

I bought some Christmas supplies today because I just don't see how Johnson can avoid directing a national restriction over Christmas, or at least in all tier three areas and most tier twos with a rising nosocomial rate. Particularly with the advice he is getting repeatedly. If there is not a directive people will decide the looser guidance doesn't apply to them.

People ignore the risks at their peril - burns, food poisoning, falls and other injuries are much more common over the Christmas period. Alcohol related illness and injuries rise exponentially.

Young children and babies with bronchiolitis are likely to be in need of hospital attention as are the elderly and more vulnerable with seasonal respiratory disease. Its not just the old folk.

You are likely to face a long, long wait if you do seek medical attention in many areas; if it's not life threatening you may well be sent to a hospital in another county for treatment. Some hospitals are running at 115% occupancy. Some are diverting all ambulances and sending walk-ins to other centres. The situation is almost definitely likely to get worse over the next week. In some counties there are no intensive care beds and transfers to other hospitals is limited by the availability of suitably trained staff.

I'm usually a risk taker but would absolutely urge people to think carefully about the activities they are taking apart in and the risk it poses to other people, including those they say they love. The sooner people comply with proper precautions, the sooner a return to some semblance of normality will be possible.

GetOffYourHighHorse Thats simply not true. The whole Kent ICS system is overwhelmed at the moment. Others are very close behind.

But why oh why do people need the government to tell them what to do?

It comes down to being sensible and sadly a lot of people are not able to be sensible whether there are rules or not.

Even long before the 'rule of 3 families' many of our friends and neighbours had taken the decision not to 'do' Xmas as they normally would. The rules simply confirmed their decisions OR were in fact over-generous in what they allowed.

You don't HAVE to have 3 families- you can have none.

It's crazy to keep blaming the government or thinking there is some other agenda, because the cause of the spread is people.

These are people who had to go shopping last weekend.
Who go to the pub pretending they are a single household when in fact they are two, or three (look at the photos online- clearly NOT a single household or bubbles.)
Who don't wear masks properly or at all.

Unless we become like China and weld people's front doors or have draconian measures, there is only so much the government can do.

If they come over TOO strongly people won't comply.

If they allow an element of common sense, people abuse it and then say the government doesn't care.

Whatever they do, will be wrong for some people.

People might realistically think that if it's allowed it can't be too dangerous

Of course it's not cancelled.
What IS cancelled (for want of a better way of saying it) is potentially less people catching this very nasty and unpredictable disease and dying.

And i will bump the Eid threads and tag in everyone who swore blind they wouldnt do this at Christmas.

That should fix everything 🤣.

When government policy is going to end up with more patients with Covid in hospital so other routine operations and treatment delayed even more, I think that people are right to be angry.
When government policy is going to push healthcare workers in an underfunded system closer to the brink then I think that people are right to be angry about that.
There will be restrictions on January regardless of the Xmas rules but 5 days of restrictions for 2 day of relaxation is too high a price to pay.

@midgebabe

People might realistically think that if it's allowed it can't be too dangerous

well if they do, they are utterly stupid.

@CherryPavlova totally agree, hospital's are full in beds in ICU
In Northern Ireland the staff are treating people outside in ambulances

If I stop my mother from seeing her grandchildren at Christmas I genuinely don't think she'd ever forgive me. It's a nightmare for those of us with difficult family dynamics and saying "no" is easier for some than for others.
Its only she and her partner visiting but I have been so so careful all year and I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable about .

We know that households mixing is the greatest driver of spread so of course it will be that driving the increases. Not being in a shop for 15 minutes with a mask on.

Some grandparents don't see their grandchildren for months on end even years where families have moved to other countries. It is horrible but people can cope with this. Far better to move Christmas to a time when we are not in the middle of time where other illnesses are doing the rounds as well. Southern hemisphere countries are probably faring a lot better than us at the moment. We might just have to have a summer Christmas for once

Italy has banned travelling other than for work, health or emergency reasons over Xmas. I think that sounds very reasonable tbh

People travelling from the SE and E of England and spreading it is a worry. I wouldn't be surprised if a Tier 4 is introduced in Jan

god help any of the Government if the press get hold of any of them breaching Christmas lockdown rules

I’d bet money on that being at least a small part of the reason they don’t cancel the relaxation. Boris doesn’t trust that there wouldn’t be one MP who breaks the rules and gets caught out. That would go over even worse with the public than Cummings’ trip.

They'll catch Stanley Johnson flouting rules again.

I think it's more likely that they'll announce a post Christmas lockdown than cancel Christmas easing
I do too. As others say, it'll be a great dead cat deflection from Brexit shit.

'Thats simply not true. The whole Kent ICS system is overwhelmed at the moment. Others are very close behind.'

I didn't say there weren't problems, the SE is now under pressure as the NW and NE has been for weeks. It is thankfully easing off in some areas whilst sadly increasing in others.

My point was lockdowns 'work ' in so much as they take the pressure of a little bit. I presume the SE will do as other areas have done and have 'pop up' ICUs in recovery rooms, HDUs etc? I'm sure they are taking advice from other areas who have experienced a surge. We clearly can't stay in lockdowns for ever. Let's hope now many parts of the South and SE are also in tier 3 they'll see a let up.