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Christmas IS going to be cancelled - last minute.

726 replies

Elephant4 · 18/12/2020 23:35

Isn't it?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/boris-johnson-calls-crisis-meeting-to-discuss-response-to-new-covid-strain

They're panicking now.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 19/12/2020 11:34

Do whatever you like it's your life provided you don't harm others

cantkeepawayforever · 19/12/2020 11:35

@Namechanged1122

It shocks me that people are essentially waiting for the government to tell them what to do with their lives. Do whatever you want, it's your life!
That is ONLY the case if what you do affects nobody else.

So that would mean that if you are meeting up with your family, nobody in that group sees anyone else until 14 days later, doesn't go shopping, doesn't seek medical help even if ill and doesn't go back to school.

Elephant4 · 19/12/2020 11:39

Same as summer holidays- it’s been allowed, people have made plans - most will go ahead with them anyway.

The damage has been done.

OP posts:
knittingaddict · 19/12/2020 11:41

@firthy85

i don't know if something in the comment meant it got deleted but sorry i feel the people at the top know more than they are willing to tell us. if the nhs was overwhelmed with covid cases etc why relax the rules for christmas. that's the question i am asking and why i am starting to believe more and more the people who say it's becoming more political than about public health and safety
I think that you are totally misreading the situation, probably due to confirmation bias.

The government, wrongly in my opinion, decided that being popular was marginally more important than protecting people. It was a risk and they foolishly went with it and this is where we all are as a result.

Incompetence is the answer, not conspiracy.

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2020 11:41

@Namechanged1122

It shocks me that people are essentially waiting for the government to tell them what to do with their lives. Do whatever you want, it's your life!
Part of the thing here is that people don't take it seriously until the government say anything.

The phrase: "but if it was that bad, the government would do something about it" springs to mind.

Its one I've seen repeated for well over a decade by people in denial and unwilling to think critically. Its a mentality that has a habit of ending badly.

MadameBlobby · 19/12/2020 11:45

My mum and Dad (early 70’s) are insistent that we come and visit. They have been really quite depressed at not seeing their young grandchildren and have weighed up how many years they have left versus the risk

My mum and dad had said similar but as I said to them it’s not them who would have to live with the guilt if they got it. My 14 year old son would never, ever, recover if he thought he’d given it to his grandparents. I’m not putting the risk of that burden on my child.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 19/12/2020 11:45

'Do whatever you like it's your life provided you don't harm others'

People have no control over an infectious disease. No one picks and chooses who they pass it on to, so they will indeed 'harm others' if they flout.

Our local hospital's ICU is full, many people with covid under 60. This convenient myth that its 95yr olds who get it and peacefully die is wrong.

Bikingbear · 19/12/2020 11:46

@treening

I've reached my limit today. I've had enough. Can't see the point in carrying on any more. Don't feel like there will ever be any joy in life again.
The tide will turn, just as it did last year, summer and the vaccines. Keep going Flowers
HopeAndDriftWood · 19/12/2020 11:48

Yeah, “do what you like as long as you think it’s okay” doesn’t work for a few reason. Firstly, people are awful at assessing risk, generally. Secondly, most people will never think it will be their family that gets sick. It’s a fact widely acknowledged in psychology. They explain it away by clinging on to people’s previous health, underlying conditions, bad choices they made. Thirdly, there’s a big and growing sentiment that if it was that harmful, the government wouldn’t allow it. People look for that governance. By allowing it, they condone people to do it.

We need someone with authority to lead. Sadly we have no one at all who has shown any sign of it.

MadameBlobby · 19/12/2020 11:49

@BonnieDundee

I love the way people are quoting SAGE and the government as if its gospel Grin

After the lies they told to put us in the last lockdown, are you not slightly suspicious this time?

I suppose it might be true this time though

Agree. I have lost all trust in SAGE.
GetOffYourHighHorse · 19/12/2020 11:49

'My mum and dad had said similar but as I said to them it’s not them who would have to live with the guilt if they got it. My 14 year old son would never, ever, recover if he thought he’d given it to his grandparents. I’m not putting the risk of that burden on my child'

Exactly. It is one day. It won't kill us to stay apart but it could if we got together. All the talk of mh problems, I guarantee a potentially critical illness and protracted recovery will play more havoc with mental health problems than sat in tucked up on the sofa watching the queens speech will.

emmskie03 · 19/12/2020 11:50

Even if they are making changes, nobody is cancelling Christmas. You can still celebrate in your own households and people living on their own will be able to bubble. One Christmas without getting together is definitely better than many people losing those they love too soon and not being able to spend any more Christmases at all.

AIBUA · 19/12/2020 11:50

@CantSayJack

Christmas isn’t cancelled though is it. People can still celebrate, just keep to your own households or pay the price in January. Quite simple really.
Whoooopie doo. Another whole day all alone eh? Just what I needed
perditaplum · 19/12/2020 11:53

@CantSayJack

Christmas isn’t cancelled though is it. People can still celebrate, just keep to your own households or pay the price in January. Quite simple really.
The trouble is the people who don't follow the rules/guidelines will cause other people to pay the price. I think, unfortunately, another national lockdown is needed over xmas.
yeOldeTrout · 19/12/2020 11:53

I'm thinking 50:50 on 'cancelled Christmas' window.

Even if 'cancelled', I'm thinking 35% chance of Lockdown 3.0 in January. 'Cancelling Christmas' won't prevent the Lockdown.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 19/12/2020 11:53

'Whoooopie doo. Another whole day all alone eh? Just what I needed'

🙄

People alone can and of course should be with another household if being alone is too unbearable.

LimitIsUp · 19/12/2020 11:54

I'm off to see my 90 year old father who lives alone with no support (not seen him for a year - lives >200 miles away). We'll be careful and I'll make my own judgements

GetOffYourHighHorse · 19/12/2020 11:58

'The trouble is the people who don't follow the rules/guidelines will cause other people to pay the price'

Exactly. If Johnson said dont mix households he'd be a 'nazi'. He is treating people like grown ups and said be very careful and keep it to a minimum. Now posters are saying we need telling exactly.

This is happening all over. Europe too has tight restrictions and just look at the state of Wales. Why are people (barring those who are terminally ill or have real genuine mh problems) so weak they can't just get on with it and put their family's health before a game of charades.

cologne4711 · 19/12/2020 11:59

My mum and dad had said similar but as I said to them it’s not them who would have to live with the guilt if they got it. My 14 year old son would never, ever, recover if he thought he’d given it to his grandparents. I’m not putting the risk of that burden on my child

Firstly, that's making it all about you.

Secondly, they could give it to you.

Thirdly, unless they've been shielding since March and never go out, how would you ever know where they caught it?

I think it's up to the more vulnerable party in the family to make the call.

airbags · 19/12/2020 12:00

@Jourdain11

People have to be able to take responsibility for themselves and the risks they take. If they judge it to be necessary, low-risk, or worth the risk, fine. If not, they don't do it. That's all! I wish people didn't have this desperation to be told what they're allowed to do. I wish everyone would quit with the guilt-tripping. Personal responsibility... risk assessment... it used to be fine for medically vulnerable people and during bad flu seasons, so why not now?
When are people going to get the message that this kills way more people than flu. And yes, people will make (sometimes selfish?) decisions for themselves and their families but this has an impact on others. The asymptomatic teenager who takes the virus to grandma, the families that gather only to catch it and pass it on to a vulnerable person. It's one Christmas - get over yourselves.
CoffeeCreamandSugar · 19/12/2020 12:00

But lockdowns don’t actually work do they? The minute the county reopens the figures start climbing again.

Inkpaperstars · 19/12/2020 12:03

@MadameBlobby

My mum and Dad (early 70’s) are insistent that we come and visit. They have been really quite depressed at not seeing their young grandchildren and have weighed up how many years they have left versus the risk

My mum and dad had said similar but as I said to them it’s not them who would have to live with the guilt if they got it. My 14 year old son would never, ever, recover if he thought he’d given it to his grandparents. I’m not putting the risk of that burden on my child.

I agree Madame and I know I would have found the situation really stressful at his age worrying about that.

I also don’t fully understand weighing up how many years people have left versus the risk, it’s surely more how long they have left until vaccinated, since they can meet then with a risk that is at least much lower than it would be now. Is it really worth elderly people taking a big risk to meet on Christmas Day rather than a month or so later? In some cases it will be but for most, not.

HopeAndDriftWood · 19/12/2020 12:06

Exactly. If Johnson said dont mix households he'd be a 'nazi'. He is treating people like grown ups and said be very careful and keep it to a minimum.

I think in a global pandemic, he sadly has to suck the reputational hit up. He hasn’t led well enough to have the authority he needs to make people listen, as evidenced in people’s behaviour now, so he can’t bleakly issue guidance and ask people to do the right thing again. They won’t. We’ve reached the stage where compliance is low generally because it’s been too long, and everyone thinks they and their family are a special case, and they won’t get it anyway. Nobody can see past having a glimpse of normality with people around to the impending chaos that it will cause. The threats of people you know dying have worn thin - either people know someone who died and are now “living for the moment” and “not wasting any more time”, or they don’t know anyone who died so they’ve decided it can’t be that bad.

The government has to tell people what to do now because there’s no other way. MN has had high compliance with the rules overall - the fact that the tide has turned here should indicate how bad it is nationally.

It’s not a fun way to lead and it isn’t building the reputation Boris wants to leave, but it’s what needs to be done now.

That said, I don’t think anything but a lockdown now would affect what people do at Christmas, and I think the government already knows we’ll be in one early next year anyway, so I can’t see them doing much. Perhaps a press conference again asking people to minimise contacts.

perditaplum · 19/12/2020 12:07

But lockdowns don’t actually work do they? The minute the county reopens the figures start climbing again.

Which is why they are needed, people won't be sensible and make the right choices so the government need to put in place a lockdown to give the NHS a fighting chance of dealing with this. Already 90% of hospital beds are being used (BBC, yesterday) and we haven't even had xmas yet.

HaHaVeryBunny · 19/12/2020 12:09

Yeah, l really don't trust Johnson and his government to do the right thing regarding lockdown. He himself that declared Covid was not an issue to be worried about and he personally shook hands with people in hospital who had it.
This was later revealed to be bullshit media spin, nobody in the hospital he went to for his PR trip had Covid.

Lying to the public comes as easily as breathing to him

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