Oxford vaccine

[Thehairyqueenofscots]

Been told at work we will be getting this at next round of vaccinations. It always seems to be high regarded on here so I'm quite pleased about this. Would you have a preference or not bothered?

[quote Oaktree55]@stepintotwitmas it’s possible to get unlicensed vaccines in U.K., I’ve done it. They are licenced elsewhere eg France/Switzerland and sold privately here. Not illegal at all just buying a product which is licensed elsewhere.[/quote]
I think that works while the UK is in the European Medicines Agency - soon to end.
Plus was it on a special license/circumstances?

@Oaktree55

In fact even the nhs use unlicensed U.K. vaccines at times of shortage. They’re licenced in other countries though and imported when we’re short.

I am intrigued. I actually work in the medicines regulatory field and only know about common/harmonised licensing procedures and about special licenses/circumstances (or called compassionate use in the UK, but not elsewhere). What vaccines could be given that had not been licensed for use in the UK?

@BlueBlancmange
Sorry, I read it differently as in meaning:
oh, it's so good that this has to be the first to be approves because we are so great.

REading again: obviously poster didn't mean it that way. I appologise

@Oaktree55 for me it depends on how quickly the private vaccine arrives etc.

The one aim of everything is getting down community transmission to a level we can live with (and ultimately gives us the chance to do what we have always done with coronavirus adapt and live with it). Because as you have said the fact is we DONT know if they prevent transmission so the longer it takes to vaccinate everyone the more people die in effect.

IF the only problem the Oxford vaccine has for me is the fact that it is a lower efficacy (and I agree some of the data is unclear until the Regulators can confirm) then getting that out quickly to as many people as possible is better than waiting for the Pfizer to become private in the summer.

That said a place local to us as from Monday is a vaccine centre so I suspect Oxford is well on the way to being rolled out.

But as I have said it depends what you think vaccines should do - drive down deaths and hospital admissions to a level that we can in the long term live with (which we are going for) or eradicate (not going to happen)

@stepintotwitmas this is just a quick example I just googled. Single measles vaccine is another.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/750866/Withdrawn_BCG_child_vaccine_A5.pdf

@Quartz2208 fair points and most probably don’t read up as much. What would I do and advise family to do? Take the more efficacious one even if it means waiting and paying. I think it’s wrong people are hoodwinked into Oxford personally. I think it has huge potential to backfire particularly if it doesn’t end up doing the job or has more adverse events than mRNA. I think it could put vaccination in the U.K. generally back a long way. I think there’ll be a huge psychological barrier to people “mixing” types as they’re attempting. Oxford is a one trick pony anyway so next time vaccination might be required be it 1 year or 5 years it won’t be Oxford. Just a shame we’re stuck with potentially less choice than other countries.

I know the American vaccine is more effective but from my basic research I would choose the oxford one first.

Oaktree I think that is a case of being in the EU and benefitting from only one member of EMA needing to license a product in order for all countries to access it. or it could have been done as a 'special'.
How did we diverge down this route - private vaccinations for Covid, from 1 Jan UK will not benefit any longer from the Europeans licenses issued under the EMA. MHRA will be sole regulatory power in the UK. It has only licensed one batch of the Pfizer vaccine, so in order for more doses to be available (including privately) MHRA will need to either approve many further batches or license the vaccine as a whole (not sure about the delay in that at present - might be ongoing assessment).

Taking the Oxford vaccine and later having the Pfizer or similar is highly likely to be possible. There is a suggestion that the Oxford vaccine would get us through and year and next winter the Imperial mRNA vaccine will be approved and people will be revaccinated with that one.

It’s ridiculous to claim that the government wants to fob us off with a cheap adenovirus vaccine. It’s funded the Imperial research, which is mRNA.

They have in every other way done a terrible job, there’s no need to make extra stuff up.

My consultant ran clinics last week so we could get weighed and meet with a pharmacist, to go over meds/allergies etc. We can only have the Oxford vaccine. Our Consultant told us that it was at the very last stages and would be released shortly.

Although I'm on the shielding list, it's my weight and not my condition, or my age (53) that puts me at risk. If I get my weight down, the Oxford one is good enough, apparently. I trust my Consultants, they've saved my life and kept me alive.

Seeing as the Pfizer vaccine doesn't stop you transmitting it, the Oxford one is good enough for people under 60.

[quote Oaktree55]@Quartz2208. This isn’t my area of expertise but I’ve done a lot of reading. It’s as yet unknown how each vaccine might (hopefully) prevent transmission but if you’re a betting person it’s likely the mRNA ones will prevent transmission more than the Oxford one. Private vaccines are £100-200 mark per dose (likely to fall significantly to akin to Boots flu jab price eventually I’m sure). Yes I’d pay that for greater protection and a likely greater chance of not passing on. Obviously that’s out of reach for many but surely it’s better that those that can pay, do, especially if the mRNA are superior at preventing transmission (yet to be determined).

I think it’s a mistake to “force” Oxford on population, I think there’ll be greater overall take up with choice.

As yet many unknowns but if I were a betting person I know where I’d put my money.[/quote]
If you think the Pfizer vaccine will be £100 or 200 I think you’re dreaming. The freezer box for transporting a small batch is £5000, it needs special care all the way of its journey, you need a specialist freezer capable of -75 degrees to store it. You have to pay staff not only to administer it but to ensure it’s stored and transported correctly. You only have a few hours to use it after diluted so potentially you’d have to pay for the entire multi use vial. If any private companies in this country decide to invest they’d need to be assured of a fairly sizeable customer base and it won’t come cheaply!

Plus a team to observe and support for allergy for 15 mins post vaccine

Yes I assume Pfizer privately will be over 1000 pounds, at least if you want it soonish.

As an asthmatic whose life has been on hold since before the first lockdown, I will happily take the first approved vaccine which is offered to me and I will feel extremely grateful for it.

What's with all the Oxford bashing?

You do know it'll be No Deal Brexit in January and Buy British will be the slogan of a nation. Stop bigging up foreign vaccines and get behind the British one.

[quote Oaktree55]@Quartz2208 fair points and most probably don’t read up as much. What would I do and advise family to do? Take the more efficacious one even if it means waiting and paying. I think it’s wrong people are hoodwinked into Oxford personally. I think it has huge potential to backfire particularly if it doesn’t end up doing the job or has more adverse events than mRNA. I think it could put vaccination in the U.K. generally back a long way. I think there’ll be a huge psychological barrier to people “mixing” types as they’re attempting. Oxford is a one trick pony anyway so next time vaccination might be required be it 1 year or 5 years it won’t be Oxford. Just a shame we’re stuck with potentially less choice than other countries.[/quote]
I think the problem is coronavirus makes experts out of us all when we are anything but!

What job do you think it should be doing though?

Why are we stuck with less options?

As to what you should advise that really does depend on age and vulnerability. Personally anyone in the group highlighted for the first wave should take Pfizer. Anyone vulnerable and over 65-70 should wait for Pfizer.

The rest of us - as long as it is safe and over 50% effective (and again we need to wait for this) should take Oxford Vaccine.

Dont get bogged down on the efficacy as being the be all and end all of it. The longer this goes on the higher the risk of getting it and more people dying.

As others have said Pfizer wont be private anytime soon at that kind of price

@User158340

What's with all the Oxford bashing?

You do know it'll be No Deal Brexit in January and Buy British will be the slogan of a nation. Stop bigging up foreign vaccines and get behind the British one.

AZ Oxford is being manufactured in India and AZ is British-Swedish company. Personally I am all for the AZ Oxford vaccine, give me any vaccine I am eligible for and as soon as possible. There will likely be problems with the Pfizer one after Brexit.

I am all for the Oxford one too. They should clearly give the Pfizer one to all the care home residents and over 80s and the Oxford one to the rest of us.

But I am not sure there will be a probkem with the Pfizer one after Brexit. The UK vaccination team have been on it and have planned everything perfectly so far. I expect they have rehearsed plans for brexit too.

I can only read that and hear sarcasm in your words otherwise
and all fingers and toes crossed, pray to god, may no deal actually still mean continued freedom of trade and movement of goods.

But the vaccination coordination team probably had no say in the government's negotiations and their contingency plan is likely to be AZ Oxford

Does the news that the AZ Oxford trial is being combined with Sputnik (they are pretty similar) mean that the AZ Oxford vaccine needs a lot more data?

@Oaktree55

They will be available privately once priority groups are vaccinated. As I understand it Pfizer’s deal with U.K. is that they won’t offer for private sale until their obligation to provide U.K. with 40 million doses is completed which is fair enough. After that point I’d imagine it will be possible to get it privately as far as I’m aware Pfizer isn’t part of Covax. Even if U.K. Gov were to be difficult and not licence it (or in licence) it’s perfectly legal to get unlicensed vaccines in U.K. private vaccination clinics.

Its difficult to imagine the commercial case that would allow Pfizer be offered privately. It’s storage issues are beyond difficult. It can’t be packed down from 975 doses and needs to be used at high run rates because of its shelf life in refrigeration. Even if the pack down is solved you need to use a vial of doses or it is wasted.

Does not sound good for Pfizer vaccine on private basis from pps. Maybe Moderna will be available soon?

[quote Oaktree55]@stepintotwitmas it’s possible to get unlicensed vaccines in U.K., I’ve done it. They are licenced elsewhere eg France/Switzerland and sold privately here. Not illegal at all just buying a product which is licensed elsewhere.[/quote]
Medicines that are licensed elsewhere in the world are not infrequently imported for use - sometimes because of shortages, sometimes because the medicine is just not licensed here.

All imports must be notified to the MHRA, though, and they will object if they are not satisfied that the medicine is safe. So it’s possible that vaccines that have not been approved for use here, or in Europe, USA, Canada etc will not be permitted. So it’s not as simple as just purchasing a vaccine from abroad.

@stepintotwitmas

Does the news that the AZ Oxford trial is being combined with Sputnik (they are pretty similar) mean that the AZ Oxford vaccine needs a lot more data?

I don't think so, they're just looking at ways of optimising efficacy. They shouldn't affect the emergency use application. However, it may be linked to the indication that the lower first dose gave better results.

There's lots more data to come from Oxford, they haven't reported on several arms of the trial yet. The data we have so far is up to November 4th.

For those saying Oxford is good enough. Is it? Have you read up on the modelling as from what I’ve read 62% isn’t good enough. As for vulnerable getting Pfizer apparently there will be quite high wastage (as apparently there always is with vaccines) and so we don’t have enough doses, we’ve barely enough at 40million anyway.

Whichever mRNA it is or another more efficacious vaccine type there will be private doses available at some point next Summer I’d put money on it. I don’t know why people are so damning about there being choice. There should and will be choice eventually. That’s a good thing as it’ll lead to more getting vaccinated.