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Vaccine and fertility - has anyone seen this?

185 replies

Startys · 06/12/2020 16:29

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941452/Information_for_healthcare_professionals.pdf

Basically says that effects on fertility are unknown. Is this worrying or am I missing something?

OP posts:
Londonwriter · 08/12/2020 13:23

I've just read the vaccine side effects leaflet. This is a vaccine that is being rolled out over a lot of people with less testing than usual. As a result, the manufacturers are covering themselves against potential legal action by listing every group they haven't tested it on.

They haven't tested on pregnant or breastfeeding women, or on women who have gone onto conceive children (because it's not been available for long enough). As such, they can't guarantee it's safe in those circumstances. However, there's no reason to believe it's unsafe either.

These vaccines are going to be rolled out over a very large number of people over the next few months and, so, by the time the posters on here who are worried about fertility get around to receiving a vaccine, there will be somewhat better data.

It's worth mentioning that I've taken countless drugs during and within 3-4 months of pregnancy that aren't licensed for use in pregnancy, and which haven't been tested on pregnant women. This is because I have fertility problems that appear to be immune linked - I either took the drugs or turned down the opportunity to have children. There's no reason to believe this vaccine is more, or less, safe, than those treatments (and both my little boys seem okay).

doireallyneedaname · 08/12/2020 13:28

Been debunked and is another baseless piece of nonsense. We don’t even make the placenta, the baby does.

Explained here www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3ODU5NTM4NDc1MjcyNDQz?igshid=p574uefov0pd&story_media_id=2457046130480151034

Stellaris22 · 08/12/2020 13:34

Are you another person starting a MN account just to post anti vax propaganda startys? There's quite a few anti vax threads now.

trulydelicious · 08/12/2020 13:51

@doireallyneedaname

Why are you linking to an instagrammer?

Is this pro-Covid vaccine propaganda?

trulydelicious · 08/12/2020 13:56

@Stellaris22

There's quite a few anti vax threads now

There are also lots of threads full of cult-like pro-Covid propaganda and no one seems to be batting an eyelid about those

trulydelicious · 08/12/2020 14:01

pro-Covid vaccine propaganda I mean obviously

doireallyneedaname · 08/12/2020 14:09

She’s an infectious disease researcher, actually.

midgetem · 08/12/2020 14:16

@alreadytaken

The ECV might include some fertile women, I'd forgotten they were a highish priority. However if they get covid it is very likely to kill them, so no fertility to worry about then. And I doubt many of the "people" on this thread are actually ECV or really worried about fertility either.

Lots of bots spreading vaccine misinformation.

Impact of vaccine on fertility - most probably none.

Impact of covid - death likely if ECV, male and female fertility likely to be affected for some others - numbers unknown.

@alreadytaken I'm sure you didn't mean it too, but I found your comment incredibly insulting. First off all there are a lot more women than you obviously imagine in the ECV category. And to then dismiss us as likely to die so fertility doesn't matter is incredibly rude. Added to the fact that you forget we should be a priority for a vaccine despite thinking we will die of covid. Please educate yourself before such comments.

I'm ECV, fertile and considering another child so thread's like this are important for people to discuss concerns. Does the rumours on Pfeizer concern me? Very much so. Will I take that vaccine, I'm not sure I would. I have an appointment to discuss further with my obstetric consultant regarding vaccines and to decide if I should take it now.

Oh and many women with my condition are not dieing of covid 19, many are in fact asymptomatic

JS87 · 08/12/2020 15:35

fullfact.org/health/vaccine-covid-fertility/

Where did this claim come from?
The origins of this claim stems from a protein on the surface of the SARS-CoV-2 virus (the virus which causes Covid-19), called a spike protein. This spike protein helps the virus enter cells and is also one of the ways the human body recognises a virus and knows to let its immune cells attack it.

The Pfizer vaccine works by giving the body the instructions on how to make this spike protein, so it can generate an immune response that attacks the virus via the spike protein faster and more effectively if it is later infected.

The building blocks of proteins are called amino acids, and it’s sequences of those that make up different proteins.

A small part of this spike protein resembles a part of another protein vital for the formation of the placenta, called syncytin-1. But the sequence of amino acids that are similar in syncytin-1 and the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is quite short.

But only two very small parts of these proteins look the same—it’s not the whole protein—and therefore realistically the body’s immune system is not likely to confuse the two, and attack syncytin-1 rather than the spike protein on SARS-CoV-2 and stop a placenta forming.

What do the experts say?
Virology professor Ian Jones at the University of Reading told Full Fact, via the Science Media Centre, that the spike protein and syncytin-1 don’t look similar enough for the same antibodies that the body would create as an immune response to the vaccine, to bind to and attack syncytin.

He said syncytin-1 is “completely unrelated to the SARS [spike] protein” and the risk of infertility is “therefore essentially fictitious.”

Professor Jonathan Stoye, Virologist at the Francis Crick Institute, told Full Fact these proteins are not identical, as some have claimed.

On whether the vaccine could cause an immune reaction to the syncytin-1 protein vital for placenta formation, he said: “I would never say never, but the possibility is vanishingly small.”

JS87 · 08/12/2020 15:37

I'm also very confident that when scientists design a vaccine they screen the target against all known human proteins for similarities. They will already have determined that there is not enough similarity between these two proteins for there to be any cross reactivity.

JS87 · 08/12/2020 15:40

For those that don't have time to read the link this is what else it said which I didn't post above.

We’ve been asked by a number of readers about claims that the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine, which has been approved for use in the UK, could lead to infertility in women.

What did the trials show?
There also isn’t any evidence from trials of the Pfizer vaccine that it affects fertility.

As the vaccine stimulates an immune response to the spike protein, if it did affect fertility we might also expect to see Covid-19 infections affecting this too, as the body should produce a similar immune response if infected. But we don’t. Although it has been suggested that Covid-19 cases seem to be more severe in pregnant women, there doesn’t seem to be evidence that Covid-19 causes women to lose their pregnancy, or struggle to get pregnant later.

The government currently says that the Pfizer vaccine “has not yet been assessed in pregnancy, so it has been advised that until more information is available, those who are pregnant should not have this vaccine.”

A number of Facebook posts point to UK government-published guidance on this vaccine, that says: “It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has an impact on fertility.”

Although we haven’t had years to watch what happens after people get the vaccine, this doesn’t mean there’s any evidence this vaccine might impact fertility. It just means that hasn’t been explicitly studied.

The reason given for this is that the vaccine works by igniting an immune response to a spike protein on the Covid-19 virus’ surface, and that this immune response could also attack similar proteins that make up the placenta, and therefore reduce fertility in women.

But there’s no evidence this is the case.

JS87 · 08/12/2020 15:41

Those last two paragraphs got misplaced. They should be after the first two paragraphs in my above post. Can't edit it I don't think.

virucidalmaniac · 08/12/2020 15:49

In essence, the concern is that the vaccine trains your body to attack and destroy the protein spike from corona virus, but females need protein spikes to form a placenta. By taking the vaccine, we could potentially be training our bodies to attack the cells needed to make a placenta before it forms properly, thus making us infertile.

Do people seriously believe this load of bollocks?Shock
I have read so much bullshit on this forum this past week, seriously, people are either seriously thick or they need to do some research before they make a fool of themselves on the internetGrin

Stellaris22 · 08/12/2020 15:52

I am starting to imagine there is a website somewhere with all this anti vax nonsense ready to copy and paste.

'I'm not an anti vaxxer, but .....' is my new annoyance.

Watermelonsugar2 · 08/12/2020 16:07

Only sharing what I’ve read... don’t shoot the messenger 😂 nobody actually knows the answers at the end of the day, hence why there is so much anxiety and debate on the topic.

doireallyneedaname · 08/12/2020 17:58

It’s just ridiculous. There are several professionals that have explained in great detail why this is not an issue and that if the vaccine did cause infertility then we’d be seeing that in Covid patients too.

PurpleDaisies · 08/12/2020 18:03

Only sharing what I’ve read... don’t shoot the messenger

People do have a responsibility not to share nonsense.

nobody actually knows the answers at the end of the day, hence why there is so much anxiety and debate on the topic.

Well, scientific experts seem to have answers but that’s not good enough for some on here.

Foliageeverywhere122 · 08/12/2020 18:40

Only sharing what I’ve read... don’t shoot the messenger

People do have a responsibility not to share nonsense.

Yup x100

www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/immunizing-the-public-against-misinformation

Stellaris22 · 08/12/2020 18:40

You don't need to share everything you read on social media just to fuel this unnecessary debate though. Sharing unproven theories is dangerous, people are rightly scared and spreading misinformation isn't right.

Leave this to experts who DO know what they are talking about. I will trust the information given out by vaccine researchers with years/decades of knowledge and experience.

Why everyone suddenly thinks they are experienced enough to talk about this is beyond me.

Watermelonsugar2 · 08/12/2020 18:41

“Well, scientific experts seem to have answers but that’s not good enough for some on here.”

Yes and what I posted was also written by a scientist who used to work for Pfizer....

Unsure33 · 08/12/2020 18:45

Anyone who wants to can be an antivaxer and have doubts . By why keep posting . Just don’t have the vaccine . Your choice .

Other human beings are capable of making their own risk assesment and investigations.

Kjc39 · 08/12/2020 18:54

It is concerning. My husband works in science and he had already mentioned this. From what he was saying. There is the possible potential that the spike protein could over stimulate the placenta, but they have not yet done studies on this, as it’s been rushed through. That’s probably why they are advising pregnant women or those planning on getting pregnant within 3 months. They will be looking into this more in the summer. Testing on pregnant women.

Kjc39 · 08/12/2020 18:57

It’s not an unproven theory. The person who first mentioned the concern is a scientist! Personally if I was planning to get pregnant soon I wouldn’t be having the vaccine unless I was high risk. Glad children won’t be getting it anytime soon.

satnighttakeaway · 08/12/2020 19:02

@Kjc39

It is concerning. My husband works in science and he had already mentioned this. From what he was saying. There is the possible potential that the spike protein could over stimulate the placenta, but they have not yet done studies on this, as it’s been rushed through. That’s probably why they are advising pregnant women or those planning on getting pregnant within 3 months. They will be looking into this more in the summer. Testing on pregnant women.
“Science” is a vast field of work, unless it's vaccine research I'm not sure why that would make anyone's opinion more worthwhile

I'm slightly surprised that tests are planned on pregnant women, firstly because that sounds slightly unexplained unethical but mainly because that wouldn't lead to any knowledge about the effects on fertility

PurpleDaisies · 08/12/2020 19:03

My husband works in science and he had already mentioned this.

That’s a change from “I know someone close to a cabinet minister”.

Any new vaccine would be advised to be not for pregnant women. That’s absolutely standard.