Vaccine and fertility - has anyone seen this?

[Startys]

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941452/Information_for_healthcare_professionals.pdf

Basically says that effects on fertility are unknown. Is this worrying or am I missing something?

There is lots that’s unknown at the moment as regards the vaccine. No one will know all of them for years

@electronVolt

Being dead has a pretty big effect of fertility too.

What a tedious response to genuine concerns. I’ll have the vaccine (and volunteered for the trials) so am certainly not in any way anti vax, but you can use a version of the “it’s better than death” to minimise any side effect and it’s a totally unhelpful response to a real concern someone might have, when a reasonable explanation might be all that’s needed to reassure them.

I highly doubt that the current priority list of over 80's, 70's, 60's and 50's will be worried about the effects on their fertility

Up to NHS and care home workers of they want to have it.

if its not been said - focusing only on deaths caused by covid as the only issue is short sighted more people getting serious/long term side effects - things like strokes, heart disease, lung & kidney problems, type 2 diabetes (causing it) plus some people have lost extremities (fingers toes etc) not all are fragile & over 70 - it seems the amount of virus you are exposed to (viral load) or your ethnic origin can your chance of getting a severe case. There are a lot of unknowns about why some people who are young & healthy can get very sick & the assumption that I don't have to worry is short sighted. Re infertility all they mean is that there is no proof - it would seem unlikely -getting a severe disease is far more likely to have side effects than the use of vaccine -the virus caused blood clots which potentially occur in any part of the body - which might well affect the reproductive system & even if you have a mild case it & you won't know about it

@electronVolt

I don’t think most those that died were fertile considering the average age of death is 82.

@mumwon

getting a severe disease is far more likely to have side effects than the use of vaccine

You cannot assess this likelihood because these vaccines have not been tested long term

[quote trulydelicious]@TibetanTerrier

nobody could work out why there was no narcolepsy in the other countries that used Pandemrix

These were cases of nurses in the UK

www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe[/quote]
Interesting, there's no mention of this in any of the reports I read. Even the WHO doesn't mention it:

"It does not appear that narcolepsy following vaccination against pandemic influenza is a general worldwide phenomenon, as no excess of narcolepsy has been reported from several other European states where Pandemrix was used"

[quote Denthelp]@PuzzledObserver no they didn’t. They told the OP that those who choose not have the vaccine will ‘obviously’ have restrictions longer than those that do have the vaccine and will also not be able to visit some premises.

As far as I’m aware there has been no official guidance / communication on this so @KihoBebiluPute is giving their opinion, not fact.[/quote]
Their second reply made it clear (I thought) that they were not saying there would be any rules or regulations compelling unvaccinated people to do anything different from vaccinated people; rather, common sense would dictate that if you don’t want the vaccine and you also don’t want to catch Covid, the only way to achieve that would be by distancing and so on.

So, yes, it’s their opinion, but it is also - well - obvious.

You responded with a line about no link, when they had already made it clear they were not pointing to any external regulations, rather pointing out what is, to any rational person, blindingly obvious.

That annoyed me, hence my knee jerk and rather rude response. You can Google the acronym, if you really want to know.

@trulydelicious

Don't ignore it, but also don't be alarmed by it. As I've said upthread, this wording is on a majority of prescription drugs. This includes vaccines, and almost certainly a lot of drugs you and your children will have been prescribed over the years.

I've mentioned it before upthread but again for posterity: amoxicillin is an extremely common antibiotic (ever given your children the banana-flavoured liquid antibiotic? That's amoxicillin). From the Summary of Product Characteristics: "There are no data on the effects of amoxicillin on fertility in humans".

@trulydelicious
www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/health-and-fitness/covid-19-male-fertility-research

also reuters discusses this in more detail uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-science/no-benefit-seen-from-plasma-treatment-in-severe-covid-19-virus-may-hurt-male-fertility-idUKKBN2852ZI

@mumwon

Both viruses and vaccines have the potential to cause health damage. Each of us should consider our own personal circumstances to determine which risk we would rather take

Isnt it like most drugs arent recommended to those trying to conceive, or pregnant or BF? As its unethical to test in those groups.

Basically it's too short a time frame to follow the volunteers on any fertility journey. It's not sinister. It's just maths of human reproduction. It's supposed to take the adverage person 6-12m to fall pg. This wasnt even produced or given to the volunteers that long ago.

Saying that, of course it's a risk, but they can make a good guess at how likely it is

Lupus is one of the leading health conditions that causes miscarriage, stillbirth, pre-term birth or serious heart problems in the baby.

Really? Lupus is very rare, there are not enough women who have the condition to make it a leading cause of miscarriage, still birth or prematurity. I'm not discounting that it does make pregnancy more risky - I have lupus and have first-hand experience of that - but it's a big leap from that to saying that it is a major cause.

I understand why you were using lupus as an example, but overegging the pudding like this just devalues the rest of your argument.

@HMSBeagle

This wasnt even produced or given to the volunteers that long ago.

This is the problem plus these technologies are new

Saying that, of course it's a risk, but they can make a good guess at how likely it is

How would they guess exactly?

Sorry, I meant to say this

This wasnt even produced or given to the volunteers that long ago.

This is the problem plus these technologies are new

Saying that, of course it's a risk, but they can make a good guess at how likely it is

How would they guess exactly?

[quote trulydelicious]@majesticallyawkward

If you don't want the vaccine by all means don't take it, but that also potentially comes with restricted movements

The government have stated that the vaccine will not be compulsory. Your statement sounds a tad manipulative. The OP should do what is right for her personal circumstances[/quote]
That's exactly what I said. But if OP chooses not to take up the vaccine offered knowing that travel is restricted she would have to accept that trade off. It's fairly straight forward, no manipulation just a basic awareness of what is happening in the world.

@Startys Sorry you’ve gotten some really unhelpful answers ☹️ I would be worried if I was pregnant / TTC, as it just simply isn’t known yet.

Wish people who actually bothered to question things were stopped being called anti-vaxxers. There’s been multiple vaccine / medicine related errors that have happened throughout our history of vaccinations. We have every right to query it, otherwise we are no more than sheep just following whatever we’re told to do. Argh!!!!

These links are a good start to understanding the risks of a vaccine for infertility:

www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/are-covid-19-vaccines-going-to-cause-infertility?fbclid=IwAR284Co-hvRXbkcE3F8QhiCfC_KmhKAbApB8e_Wgi4eOtXO2CwApIiNvUhA&format=amp&__twitter_impression=true

mobile.twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1334593606196187136

mobile.twitter.com/ArisKatzourakis/status/1335226721927393281

Coronavirus infections and pregnancy impacts (for comparison):

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32292902/

There is a way they could check effect on hormones and fertility in women by vaccinating women who have had a hysterectomy (no risk of pregnancy or breastfeeding if no longer breastfeeding), but still have their ovaries that have not gone through menopause.

The Pfizer vaccine is unlikely to be given to any female who is still fertile, the Oxford vaccine will be the one most people in that age bracket are likely to receive. So the question becomes which is likely to have the most effect on fertility - covid or the vaccine.

Covid is known to effect blood clotting. It gets into the testes and causes inflammation. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jum.15558

it probably depletes testosterone www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200928125024.htm
That has an impact not just on fertility but on libido.

www.nbcchicago.com/lx/another-reason-to-wear-a-mask-covid-19-may-cause-erectile-dysfunction/2386588/

So males have good reason to be concerned about covid's impact on fertility and any female ttc has reason to be concerned about their partner's fertility.

Female fertility hasnt yet been studied but on the covid threads women report their periods are affected. Women have testosterone too and low levels in women are also related to low libido www.bumc.bu.edu/sexualmedicine/publications/testosterone-insufficiency-in-women-fact-or-fiction/

So there is reason to believe covid may impact on female fertility too.

The effect of the vaccine on fertility are unknown but the Oxford vaccine uses old technology. There is no evidence of that technology, used in vaccines for years, having impacted male or female fertility. Therefore there is no good reason to believe the Oxford vaccine will impact either male or female fertility.

So you have a known risk to fertility from covid compared with a very unlikely risk from the Oxford vaccine.

The Pfizer vaccine is unlikely to be given to any female who is still fertile, @alreadytaken why would you assume that women who are ECV are either post menopausal or already infertile. Another day another assumption!

@alreadytaken

The effect of the vaccine on fertility are unknown but the Oxford vaccine uses old technology. There is no evidence of that technology, used in vaccines for years, having impacted male or female fertility

This is incorrect. The technology used by the Oxford vaccine may not be as outlandish (in my view) as the mRNA vaccines but is also new and not used in vaccines for years

This is a non issue.

Explaine here - www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3ODU5NTM4NDc1MjcyNDQz?igshid=149j6vas5ptwn&story_media_id=2457046130480151034

From an immunological perspective, if the vaccine was to cause any issues with fertility it would be related to cross reactive autoimmunity. It is most likely that this would also happen with natural covid infection.
I do understand why people might feel concerned as of course it is scary to take something which hasn't been proved not to affect fertility (although as others point out this is the same for other drugs).
However, you must consider that the risks of covid on infertility are also unknown and in all likelihood covid is likely to have a greater impact on fertility than the vaccine. There are already several peer reviewed articles describing impacts on sperm in males with covid.

If you are concerned about impacts on fertility you are within your rights to refuse the vaccine but I think you should also consider that you would be safest to try to avoid catching covid too. It would be illogical to be scared of the possible effects of a vaccine on fertility but not those of a novel virus. It is not a valid argument to say I'd rather have covid as the risks are small for someone of my age. No-one knows the risks of covid on fertility either.

Currently pregnant, won’t be having whilst breastfeeding.