Vaccine and fertility - has anyone seen this?

[Startys]

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941452/Information_for_healthcare_professionals.pdf

Basically says that effects on fertility are unknown. Is this worrying or am I missing something?

@PuzzledObserver no they didn’t. They told the OP that those who choose not have the vaccine will ‘obviously’ have restrictions longer than those that do have the vaccine and will also not be able to visit some premises.

As far as I’m aware there has been no official guidance / communication on this so @KihoBebiluPute is giving their opinion, not fact.

@PuzzledObserver also never heard of ODFD - can you explain what that is abbreviation for please?

How on earth did you expect them to get data on fertility?!!! It’s only been in trials for a few months so how do you expect to see if it affects fertility or not? Same with pregnant woman - they haven’t tested it on enough people. I’m astounded that you didn’t realise this would be the case!!!

[quote Startys]@WotsitWiggle would you be unconcerned then about this and the vaccine?[/quote]
I'm not of child bearing age, so it's not something I'd be concerned about. But, no, I trust the medics to do their job and make sure that there are no major short-term effects of this vaccine. I'm grateful to the thousands of volunteers who agreed to be in the trial.

It's individual choice at this stage, because the vaccine has been shown to be effective at reducing the risk for developing the disease from the virus.

If it is shown to also stop transmission, then there's a wider debate around vaccinating enough of the population to get herd immunity.

@Startys do you understand the difference between “unknown” and “may well” because it seems like you don’t.

Long covid is suspected to be an autoimmune illness, and has a significant number of overlaps with lupus. There was a study showing raised anti nuclear antibodies in previously healthy people (sorry can’t find link as I’m on mobile but you should be able to google it). Covid also causes abnormal blood clotting issues which is another hallmark of autoimmune disease. Incidentally hydroxychloroquine which was widely studied against covid is the main treatment against lupus.

Lupus is one of the leading health conditions that causes miscarriage, stillbirth, pre-term birth or serious heart problems in the baby. Only 30% of lupus patients have a normal pregnancy, 30% have a preterm birth and 30% will have a miscarriage or stillbirth. Out of the live births, 3-5% of babies need a pacemaker within their first year of life, but if the mother wasn’t diagnosed so the baby could receive the necessary cardiac monitoring, then it often causes sudden death.

So if I were concerned about fertility, I would be absolutely shitting bricks over catching covid. You will most likely not die from it but the chances of ending up with long covid is far greater, something like 10%. This is a mystery long term condition that medical science know even less about but shows a number of overlaps with existing conditions that are debilitating for quality of life and fertility.

As others have said this would probably never be known so not worth worrying about. There are many known things that can affect fertility so better to worry about those!

1. Under 50s who are healthy are not expected to be able to have a vaccine for a long time

1. Of course they didn't test this vaccine on pregnant women! That's not ethical. Lots of common medicines aren't tested on pregnant people so it says do not take if pregnant or breastfeeding.

It means they don't know.
They don't know, because of the time scale.
Its a brand new vaccine. Fertility research takes years, for obvious reasons

@Startys
I guess I just wonder if it’s right to worry about this? It’s put me off wanting it tbh

If you don't have underlying conditions that make you vulnerable to Covid, and you don't work with vulnerable people, it won't be something you have to decide for a good while yet.

Phase 1 of the rollout covers the 22 million people who make up 99% of preventable mortality from COVID-19.

Phase 1

1. residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
2. all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers
3. all those 75 years of age and over
4. all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
5. all those 65 years of age and over
6. all individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which

put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality

1. all those 60 years of age and over
2. all those 55 years of age and over
3. all those 50 years of age and over

Depending on how the vaccine affects the spread of the virus and how quickly deaths and hospital admissions are reduced, the powers that be will then decide who should be vaccinated in Phase 2. It is likely to be something like:

1 first responders
2 the military
3 those working in the justice system
4 teachers
5 transport workers
6 public servants essential to the pandemic response

Only after all these people have been vaccinated might those who don't fit into any of these categories be offered the vaccine - and by that time the boffins hope to have been able to study how it affects pregnant women..

See here

Not true, another Facebook crank

Op - your not missing something. It is worrying. Although healthy people of child-bearing age will not be offered a vaccine anyway for a long while (unless frontline workers, like myself but I am breastfeeding) So luckily can see how it affects others first.

@YouAreAmazing of course it's the case. How would people know what affect new drugs and vaccines had on fertility until they've been around long enough for people to try getting pregnant and realise they can't...and then link it to the meds. And then find more people with the same issue?! It's just how this works. It's not ethical to test on pregnant women so that also makes it harder to know. Irs ok wait until you need a life saving med... I can assure you you'll try regardless. (Personal experience here)

I'm far from an anti vaxxer, I've had them all and would strongly advocate for the covid vaccine. I'm also a nurse and will probably be expected to have it. However I won't be getting it at present. The joint committee for vaccination and immunisation state that "Women should be advised not to come forward for vaccination if they may be pregnant or are planning a pregnancy within three months of the first dose.". I'm TTC so I'll be waiting until a time which they can recommend that it's appropriate for me to have it.

@majesticallyawkward

If you don't want the vaccine by all means don't take it, but that also potentially comes with restricted movements

The government have stated that the vaccine will not be compulsory. Your statement sounds a tad manipulative. The OP should do what is right for her personal circumstances

@CoffeeDay

Vaccines can also cause autoimmunity. Think Pandremix (swine flu vaccine) and autoimmune narcolepsy

[quote trulydelicious]@CoffeeDay

Vaccines can also cause autoimmunity. Think Pandremix (swine flu vaccine) and autoimmune narcolepsy[/quote]
Pandemrix was a strange one. The cases of narcolepsy after vaccination were all in Sweden, Finland and Iceland, but Pandemrix was used all over Europe. Researchers unsuccessfully looked for environmental factors in those three countries which could have been a factor but nobody could work out why there was no narcolepsy in the other countries that used Pandemrix. Then later, reports began emerging of cases of narcolepsy in people in other countries who had caught the SARS virus but had not been vaccinated, so it then seemed likely that the narcolepsy was connected to the virus itself rather than the vaccine.

Copied and pasted from the document -

4.6 Fertility, pregnancy and lactation

Pregnancy There are no or limited amount of data from the use of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2. Animal reproductive toxicity studies have not been completed. COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is not recommended during pregnancy. For women of childbearing age, pregnancy should be excluded before vaccination. In addition, women of childbearing age should be advised to avoid pregnancy for at least 2 months after their second dose.

Breast-feeding It is unknown whetherCOVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2is excreted in human milk. A risk to the newborns/infants cannot be excluded.COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 should not be used during breast-feeding.

Fertility It is unknown whether COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2has an impact on fertility.

@TheBoots

This is completely standard wording

It may be standard wording but it's there for a reason. Otherwise they wouldn't include it (i.e. you shouldn't just ignore it)

Some of the more extreme greens would wellcome a reduction in human fertility.

@TibetanTerrier

nobody could work out why there was no narcolepsy in the other countries that used Pandemrix

These were cases of nurses in the UK

www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe

Vaccines can also cause autoimmunity. Think Pandremix (swine flu vaccine) and autoimmune narcolepsy

Also, more to the point, autoimmunity can be the cause of infertility (e.g. Hashimoto and underactive thyroid disease)

We do know that covid seems to affect people's periods.
Affect their thyroid which affects fertility.
Affects boys.
If you get ME that might affect choices on how many kids you want.
Smoking in pregnancy can I think affect your child's fertility.

@Keepdistance

True, there are risks if one gets Covid and there are also risks if you choose to have a vaccine for which long term side effects are not yet known

Are any of the posters who are describing how a vaccine is tested to determine the impact on fertility actually scientists versed in the testing of vaccine?

Because I’m pretty sure “vaccinate women who are TTC and see if they get pregnant” is not a scientific process. There are other ways to test fertility besides waiting for a pregnancy. Also, it’s not just women that whose fertility will need to be tested.

OP, pay no mind to the “shut down any discussion that involves critical thinking” brigade. You are right to want the facts to make your decision.