Vaccine and fertility - has anyone seen this?

[Startys]

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941452/Information_for_healthcare_professionals.pdf

Basically says that effects on fertility are unknown. Is this worrying or am I missing something?

I’d have said the same, until last week, OP... but 3 people I know have died of COVID in this second wave.. all under 50.

You are getting a bit of stick because It’s pretty obvious, surely that we can’t know effect on fertility. You’d need at least 5 years of data to do that kind of analysis. No drug has that at the outset. It’s one of the many things we have to balance when assessing risk at a population level, rather than at an individual level.

Just do a thought experiment if the effect of the rubella vaccination on fertility had to (somehow!) have been determined before it was rolled out.

They would say that about any drug that only got approval last week. How can they possibly know that yet?

[quote Startys]@Porgy I’m not an anti vaxxer I’ve had them all. But this one is a bit different as most people have a cold if they do get it. I’m not against vaccines though.

Does that mean TB, polio, MNR etc all were unknown about fertility and were done anyway?[/quote]
Yes, there’s lots of drugs and vaccines given without knowing effects on fertility, and other things too. It’s something they have to put as no in depth studies will have been done on it.

Ah ok yes fair enough how would they know.

I guess I just wonder if it’s right to worry about this? It’s put me off wanting it tbh

It would be more concerning if they didn't include that information at this stage tbh.
As it is, all it shows is transparency and adherence to normal standards.

The HFEA recommended this week that women who are pregnant or planning to conceive in the next three months do not have the vaccine.

www.hfea.gov.uk/treatments/covid-19-and-fertility-treatment/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-for-patients/frequently-asked-questions-for-patients-on-coronavirus-covid-19/

I will get it in due course, but not before we finish IVF or the vaccine is recommended to pregnant/ttc women. My husband will take it as soon as it’s available.

And it’s not something you should be worried about. It’s a disclaimer as they don’t know. If you’re concerned about this there’s many other things you also shouldn’t take as it’s unknown for a lot of things.

Plenty of everyday drugs that have been around for decades are labelled as not suitable when pregnant or breastfeeding. It's not because they are not safe, it's because drugs simply aren't tested on pregnant or breastfeeding women.

If you are in the age group to be pregnant or breastfeeding then you aren't a high risk group for Coronavirus complications, unless you have significant other health issues. Therefore there's no overwhelming need to test on these issues.

We'll only find out how Coronavirus itself has impacted on fertility by seeing what happens to people of that age group who have caught it. Pregnant women seem to be ok and still have healthy babies even if they catch Coronavirus when pregnancy

Personally I'm a little worried this virus could have some impact like mumps does on male fertility. I'm not sure there's any evidence of this and I really hope not but the growing evidence of heart, lung and kidney damage in many, even after only mild illness, is a concern that other more hidden long term issues could also arise.

Personally I'd rather have the vaccine than the virus for many different reasons.

For those wondering, it’s extremely challenging to undertake medical trials on pregnant women due to the ethics involved, hence the vaccine’s effects are unknown rather than unsafe.

@Startys

Ah ok yes fair enough how would they know.

I guess I just wonder if it’s right to worry about this? It’s put me off wanting it tbh

If you're young enough for this to be an issues literally hundreds of millions of people worldwide will have been vaccinated before it's your turn.

Im assuming you know it's not compulsory

@OpheliasCrayon

It would be unknown for any new vaccine and any new drug.

Really!?!

I'd rather take my chance and give the vaccine a miss

This is completely standard wording and if you were to look at the Summary of Product Characteristics (basically the legal doc for most drugs) this appears in more than not. Same as when you look to see if things are safe in pregnancy, often it's not been studied so they are ultra cautious. This is absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

Are you actually in a group likely to be offered the vaccine?
If you're over 50 then fertility really isn't very relevant (I'm 60 and if it affected mine it'd be a bloody miracle!)

If you're an HCP or a care home worker then the issue isn't just whether you'd survive having covid undamaged (including for all we know at this point, impairing your fertility) it's about what would be the effect on people you might pass it onto. Make your own ethical judgement on that.

As an example this is from the Summarybof Product Characteristics for amoxicillin, one of the most commonly prescribed antibiotics, which most children will have had before their 10th birthday "There are no data on the effects of amoxicillin on fertility in humans".

@YouAreAmazing0
Yes really, this is completely standard - see my earlier comment on amoxicillin. If you're a parent whose child has had antibiotics it is highly likely to have been amoxicillin. Yet "There are no data on the effects of amoxicillin on fertility in humans".

It’s a valid concern OP. I have finished having children but had I not, I’d be thinking twice too. I can only assume the posters giving you a hard time have had all the children they want and are selfishly wanting you to help create herd immunity. Ironic really that you are getting bashed for thinking of your own circumstances.

To find out whether the vaccine will affect fertility, a significant number of women who are intending to TTC need to be recruited, half of them vaccinated and half of them not vaccinated (if it's a "blind" trial then not telling them which category they are in) and then monitor them for a year and see how many in each category are pregnant by the end of the year.

Recruiting enough participants for such an experiment will take a long time, it may be a while before it happens.

It's an important experiment to do, but it is completely sensible for the vaccine to be rolled out for older people and people with serious underlying health conditions before doing this experiment. By all means decline the vaccine if you intend to TTC and have no underlying health conditions, until such time as the experiment has been done - your Covid risk is very low anyway if you are young enough for TTC to be a realistic worry for you. Obviously you will need to observe social distancing, masks and not going in to some premises for a lot longer than those of us who are vaccinated.

Fine by me, I'm done having kids.

@KihoBebiluPute can you link to where is stated that those who chose not to have the vaccine will ‘obviously need to observe social distancing, masks and not going in to some premises for a lot longer than those who are vaccinated’ please?

Or is that just your opinion on what you think should happen? Therefore not ‘obviously’ at all.

God it’s depressing isn’t it

Apologies, for "obviously" please read "obvious to those with any basic understanding of science and epidemiology" - clearly not obvious to those who don't. Also for "need" please read "would be rational to decide to, if you care about managing your risk of getting Covid" - clearly if you don't care whether or not you get infected then you don't need to at all.

@KihoBebiluPute oh dear, no link? I thought as much.

Take no notice of that type of bonkers blackmail OP. You do whatever you feel is right for you.

There are many drugs not recommended to pregnant or breastfeeding women not because they pose a threat but because there are no studies on it. No one wants to take the risk (and that's kind of fair enough)

And this is a new vaccine, there are no long term studies and there won't be for some time. Pfizer won't/can't say there is no effect on fertility or a de emollient foetus because it's not ethical to experiment on them and without time it's impossible to make observations.

If you don't want the vaccine by all means don't take it, but that also potentially comes with restricted movements (at least one airline have already said they won't allow anyone to fly unless they have had the vaccine and it's looking likely that similar restrictions to apply to other travel and/or large events). It's a personal decision to make, does a small risk, that at this moment is unsubstantiated hysteria, outweigh that?

[quote Denthelp]**@KihoBebiluPute oh dear, no link? I thought as much.

Take no notice of that type of bonkers blackmail OP. You do whatever you feel is right for you.[/quote]
ODFD - @KihoBebiluPute gave a perfectly reasonable analysis of the situation for people who choose not to be vaccinated. They either continue to take extra precautions to avoid catching Covid, or accept they are risking catching it. It’s perfectly logical.