NHS staff now come after care homes for vaccine

[UnlimitedUnspecific]

The government have just changed their plans - now care homes will get the vaccine before the NHS, which in reality means instead of the NHS at this point since there are only 800,000 vaccines and 1.2 million people in care homes.

I am furious. The PPE provided to doctors and nurses doesn't properly protect them from the HUGE viral load of a patient ill enough to be hospitalised. Only yesterday the government admitted that the rate of Covid-19 infections caught INSIDE hospitals was far too high, and yet doctors and nurses will have to wait, what I expect will be weeks or months for a vaccination. In the meantime, their health and lives and those of their families, and those of other patients in hospital, other staff in hospital, people whose work takes them into hospital or transport workers serving hospitals - all at high risk.

(posted this on another thread already, but it will be lost in the comments)

Care homes can be shielded, NHS staff have a plastic pinny and a paper mask.

If the lists I’ve been reading for a couple of weeks it was always: care home residents and staff the. 2, was over 80s and health care staff.

I work for the NHS in a less risky area paediatrics so fewer covid patients generally. I’m very happy to wait until more vulnerable and elderly people get the vaccine. I’m ok to wait. I wear PPE and I’m careful outside of work. I’m fit and healthy. I know there’s a risk of covid and it’s effects but I’ll carry on until it’s my turn.

I thought the idea was to invite people to the hospitals for vaccination in these groups due to the storage issues?

I would not let any relative of mine anywhere near a hospital right now except for life-saving treatment, let alone a frail/elderly care home resident.

The PPE situation is a disgrace.

If you look at the number of nhs worker deaths vs the number of care home deaths, or deaths in the older age groups, it’s hundreds vs tens of thousands. The vaccine priority list is right.

@PurpleDaisies

The PPE situation is a disgrace.

If you look at the number of nhs worker deaths vs the number of care home deaths, or deaths in the older age groups, it’s hundreds vs tens of thousands. The vaccine priority list is right.

But death in the course of doing ones work is very different unfortunately. An employer has a legal duty of care to safeguard employees. NHS staff should not have caught or still be catching Covid-19 in the course of caring for the sick and dying.

@RainbowParadise

They can flame me as well as I completely agree. If my mum (or myself) was in a care home with severe dementia, suffering and with only a short time to live I would much rather somebody else got the limited number of a vaccines.

NHS staff should not have caught or still be catching Covid-19 in the course of caring for the sick and dying.

I absolutely agree. That’s a PPE issue.

And a vaccination issue also

@UnlimitedUnspecific

And a vaccination issue also

There wasn’t a vaccine.

But there is now

@UnlimitedUnspecific

But there is now

That doesn’t mean the nhs gets to take it when there are more vulnerable people out there.

The vaccine does not belong to the nhs. It is not available to them as an option to protect their workers. They get it as determined by the JCVI priority list. Safe working practices and adequate PPE is what they have to keep their workers safe at the moment.

@UnlimitedUnspecific

Care homes can be shielded

How?

@PurpleDaisies

The PPE situation is a disgrace.

If you look at the number of nhs worker deaths vs the number of care home deaths, or deaths in the older age groups, it’s hundreds vs tens of thousands. The vaccine priority list is right.

But for what, how long are we saving the very extreme elderly for?

My grandad is 91 but isn't in a care home, he is resolute he won't go in one and I don't blame him. Mentally he has full capacity, but physically he has many many health problems, is very frail with mobility issues and is in an awful lot of pain. My dad who is mid 60s is his carer. He won't admit it but it's definitely detrimental to his own health.

My grandad has said many times he has had enough. Fed up of the pain, misses my gran, he can't go anywhere or do any of things he once enjoyed. He's depressed and exhausted. What is the point of giving him a vaccine? To prolong life for someone who has lived well beyond the age of life expectancy and if he lives much longer to decline further, it will be terrible for him, and frankly my dad as well.

I'm sure he'd rather my dad have his vaccine tbh!

Better get my stake ready....

It's about time the R.A.F. were tasked with bringing the vaccine.

@UnlimitedUnspecific

My partner works as on the frontline and is really battling against depression now. He’s really struggling

yes, in a similar position. There really is very little recognition from the government or the public of the pressure of caring for 100's of people with a highly contagious disease all at once, with the very real chance of catching the illness and taking it home to your family.
I know ICU nurses with PTSD (other NHS staff may also be affected). Very few people recognise this or care.

The announcement should never have been made yesterday that NHS would be first. How cruel to give something then take it away when it means so much to so many.

I am not in England and I notice you say 'UK' where you should be saying England. A common MN issue!

It was very clearly reported yesterday in my part of the UK that care homes would remain priority if they could find a way round the logistical issues.

It would be fair to say @RainbowParadise that we have very different opinions on the value of the lives of people who live in care homes.

I don’t fancy getting banned today so I’ll leave it there.

I think frontline workers should get it first as a lot of them deal with the elderly that live in care homes and although I don’t know much about the vaccine, if it stops the person spreading it it would make sense that those dealing with the elderly get it first especially if the spread is bad in hospitals and it’s getting out that way too when people are discharged. There is no ideal solution but we do need our nhs staff safe and protected! Kind of like when you get on a flight and they say always put your own mask on first before helping others in an emergency!!!

@PurpleDaisies

It would be fair to say *@RainbowParadise* that we have very different opinions on the value of the lives of people who live in care homes.

I don’t fancy getting banned today so I’ll leave it there.

That's really disgusting to say I don't value the lives of people in care homes. I don't fancy getting banned either so I won't respond to that point further than that.

No one would have chosen this situation, to be going through this pandemic. The choices right now are grim.

I said in my post that in such circumstances there needs to be an element of considering what are the most tragic outcomes and I happen to believe it's more tragic for an NHS nurse in her 50s to die than a very elderly person of 90. Their life doesn't matter less. It's just less tragic if someone dies at that age.

But carry on twisting what I said if that's what you want.

Kind of like when you get on a flight and they say always put your own mask on first before helping others in an emergency!!!

The risk to not having an oxygen mask is vastly different between most nhs workers and most care home residents. It is not a valid comparison.

@kittensarecute

That is ridiculous. NHS workers should be first. This isn't fair.

I agree.

It’s sad that there is no visiting at many care homes but we need the healthcare workers to get us through winter. We also need routine appointments caught up so there are not more consequences than just covid. Do the nhs staff, gps and dentists first so we have healthcare then priories those next at highest risk.

@UnlimitedUnspecific

I also suspect this does not bode well for the other vaccines, e.g. AZ Oxford. I suspect the government know they only have one vaccine that effectively protects the very elderly and that is the Pfizer one, but due to Brexit they are likely to only get the initial 800,000 doses so are now obliged to give those to the very elderly and everyone else will have to wait for a very much less effective vaccine as and when that is approved...

If that is true, I worry about the elderly who do not live in care homes. My parents are in their 70s living independently at home and won't get the Pfizer vaccine and it seems that may be the only one that works in their age group, otherwise why is the government doing a U-turn from yesterday's plans?

I think this is the issue. You are (understandably) focussing on your DH, your family, your parents. However the independent body who developed the priority order aren't; they are looking at the population as a whole. They had clear rationale for their decision making and countries in the UK had autonomy to decide if they wanted to adopt this list. There would never be an order that everyone is happy with as people naturally want to benefit personally. That is why you have an independent panel to make the decisions.

Do the nhs staff, gps and dentists first so we have healthcare then priories those next at highest risk.

Why dentists? They’re back open with enhanced PPE for appointments. I haven’t seen them on any priority list.

Care home staff should be the first priority, since they put care home residents at risk if they get the virus and it's easier to vaccinate them then less mobile residents. NHS staff on covid wards should be vaccinated next to reduce the risk of transmission to patients, make hospitals safer for everyone and ensure that staff are less often away sick. At the same time anyone in hospital or visiting hospital who is over 80 or who is being discharged to a care home should be vaccinated if feasible. Then do care home residents.

The logistics of this are likely to mean that there are spare vaccines available from a batch and some people may get vaccinated out of turn if they respond quickly. I got my flu jab early because I answered my phone and was able to get to the surgery when someone was unwell and couldnt be vaccinated. NHS staff who are desperate should keep in contact with the vaccine hub.

@PurpleDaisies

Do the nhs staff, gps and dentists first so we have healthcare then priories those next at highest risk.

Why dentists? They’re back open with enhanced PPE for appointments. I haven’t seen them on any priority list.

Dentists are healthcare staff. Of course they are on the official priority list.

If you don't vaccinate NHS staff - services will close. There are already staffing issues.

"I think this is the issue. You are (understandably) focussing on your DH, your family, your parents. However the independent body who developed the priority order aren't; they are looking at the population as a whole. They had clear rationale for their decision making and countries in the UK had autonomy to decide if they wanted to adopt this list. There would never be an order that everyone is happy with as people naturally want to benefit personally. That is why you have an independent panel to make the decisions"

No I am not focusing on my situation. I mentioned some details along the way to sympathise with other posters or give examples. Plenty of other people on this thread agree with the original post without having a relative involved.
You are very patronising, and there is no need to be so condescending in order to voice your differing opinion. I have responded politely to posters who disagreed with me without being patronising or insulting. You should have the same courtesy.