NHS staff now come after care homes for vaccine

[UnlimitedUnspecific]

The government have just changed their plans - now care homes will get the vaccine before the NHS, which in reality means instead of the NHS at this point since there are only 800,000 vaccines and 1.2 million people in care homes.

I am furious. The PPE provided to doctors and nurses doesn't properly protect them from the HUGE viral load of a patient ill enough to be hospitalised. Only yesterday the government admitted that the rate of Covid-19 infections caught INSIDE hospitals was far too high, and yet doctors and nurses will have to wait, what I expect will be weeks or months for a vaccination. In the meantime, their health and lives and those of their families, and those of other patients in hospital, other staff in hospital, people whose work takes them into hospital or transport workers serving hospitals - all at high risk.

(posted this on another thread already, but it will be lost in the comments)

Care homes can be shielded, NHS staff have a plastic pinny and a paper mask.

It’s strategic. Vaccinating people in care homes will reduce the strain on the nhs wards massively

Care home and NHS workers should be at the bottom of the list given the data currently available but that wouldn't be politically acceptable. It is simply irresponsible to be vaccinating those who have large levels of contact with the most vulnerable with a vaccine that isn't proven to reduce transmission but which is proven to reduce symptoms. By vaccinating these people we are making it harder to catch those who are able to spread the virus (as they are less likely to have symptoms) which will increase the exposure faced by the elderly and vulnerable.

My sister is a nurse. She's has Covid twice.

In order to fullly equip the nhs they need to be vaccinated.

I know it's crap for the care homes but the people caring for us if we are unlucky enough to catch Covid surely need to be as risk free as possible so they can keep caring for us as a whole.

Plus if they are vaccinated, all the issues with other health problems might stand a fighting chance of moving a bit faster.

@StatisticalSense

Care home and NHS workers should be at the bottom of the list given the data currently available but that wouldn't be politically acceptable. It is simply irresponsible to be vaccinating those who have large levels of contact with the most vulnerable with a vaccine that isn't proven to reduce transmission but which is proven to reduce symptoms. By vaccinating these people we are making it harder to catch those who are able to spread the virus (as they are less likely to have symptoms) which will increase the exposure faced by the elderly and vulnerable.

@StatisticalSense

That's really interesting what you have just said. Do you have any links about the points you have made?

I'm not being goady or anything but I just haven't heard any of that so I'd like to read up on it.

@StatisticalSense this is what I'm asking our home manager. Are we having the vaccine to prevent transmission to our residents ? Or is it purely to reduce symptoms. As an end of life carer I'd rather experience symptoms then not go into work and spread it , rather than feel fine and go into work and possibly pass it on to people I've been caring for. Some of whom I've been caring for 10 years plus. Not every one dies within 2 years of being in a care home. We have mixed ages, varied levels of needs and illness. We have young MS residents, who could well go on for another 15 years, as well as our elderly relatives of 100. Who are fairly fit and well, they just need help with mobility.

As a carer it's a huge responsibility, and so many of our questions are not being answered.

That should be residents, not relatives.. Sorry

We honestly don’t know whether this vaccine reduces transmission because the necessary data wasn’t captured. The Oxford vaccine apparently captured some useful but not definitive data on this issue.
I think most experts are working on the assumption that it probably will, but we’ll need to keep testing vaccinated HCP and care home staff regularly until we’ve got real evidence.
Here’s a link from Nature.
www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8

@ancientgran

Visited a relative's care home today. They have their vaccinations all sorted for late next week. Vaccine being collected from hub and GP plus nurse on duty at the home doing all staff and residents, GP then going to two other homes in the same road. I don't know if he is doing all the homes in the town, probably another 3 or 4. Almost exactly how I imagined it would be done, I just thought the nurse could do it without the GP.

All the forms are done, I signed the permission slip for my relative so saw the pile sitting there, obviously wouldn't/couldn't read them but my relatives was pulled out of the pile so I knew what they were.

I think a doctor has to be on the premises. I went to the practice nurse for a whooping cough vaccine years ago but the nurse refused to do it because the GP had to nip out for an emergency, she said she couldn't do it without a doctor on the premises. I always wondered if it was definitely correct - perhaps it is!

The thing about dying within 28 days of a test , if you are in hospital you are tested regularly even if you are positive so the example of people who are in for ages not dying within 28 days of a test it's not true

@StatisticalSense

Care home and NHS workers should be at the bottom of the list given the data currently available but that wouldn't be politically acceptable. It is simply irresponsible to be vaccinating those who have large levels of contact with the most vulnerable with a vaccine that isn't proven to reduce transmission but which is proven to reduce symptoms. By vaccinating these people we are making it harder to catch those who are able to spread the virus (as they are less likely to have symptoms) which will increase the exposure faced by the elderly and vulnerable.

I think all, certainly most hospitals are now doing asymptomatic testing of patient facing staff twice a week.

I don’t know about care home staff but wouldn’t be surprised if they’re also doing it.

The tests are the ones which give the results in 30 mins. So regardless of symptoms people should be getting picked up.

At our home, our test results are coming back within 2 to 5 days. We're tested weekly.

I think a doctor has to be on the premises. I went to the practice nurse for a whooping cough vaccine years ago but the nurse refused to do it because the GP had to nip out for an emergency, she said she couldn't do it without a doctor on the premises. I always wondered if it was definitely correct - perhaps it is!

That's pretty much correct. This is because of the risk - with any vaccine - of the patient collapsing and requiring urgent medical attention (anaphylaxis, fainting, whatever). There has to be a clinician in charge, who is suitably qualified to deal with any immediate adverse events.

Though I thought that senior nurses could have that role, as well as doctors.

Our Trust starts vaccinating staff today. Have my booking. Strangely excited!!

I work in education and as far as I understand we are not even on the list!

know it's crap for the care homes but the people caring for us if we are unlucky enough to catch Covid surely need to be as risk free as possible so they can keep caring for us as a whole Why are the people caring for "us" more vital than the people caring for "them" particularly as "them" are more likely to be seriously ill or die.

Dizzybintess Russia have teachers/educators in the top tier, shame we don't seem to place the same sort of value on teachers particularly when education is deemed so important, it is quite strange to hold both views simultaneously.

@Dizzybintess sorry that is crap. You definitely should be.