NHS staff now come after care homes for vaccine

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The government have just changed their plans - now care homes will get the vaccine before the NHS, which in reality means instead of the NHS at this point since there are only 800,000 vaccines and 1.2 million people in care homes.

I am furious. The PPE provided to doctors and nurses doesn't properly protect them from the HUGE viral load of a patient ill enough to be hospitalised. Only yesterday the government admitted that the rate of Covid-19 infections caught INSIDE hospitals was far too high, and yet doctors and nurses will have to wait, what I expect will be weeks or months for a vaccination. In the meantime, their health and lives and those of their families, and those of other patients in hospital, other staff in hospital, people whose work takes them into hospital or transport workers serving hospitals - all at high risk.

(posted this on another thread already, but it will be lost in the comments)

Care homes can be shielded, NHS staff have a plastic pinny and a paper mask.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=eprints.lse.ac.uk/33895/1/dp2769.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjp5evexbbtAhXLTcAKHe69Aj4QFjAMegQIIBAB&usg=AOvVaw2It1vm8PccL62TN5M2FGLL" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=eprints.lse.ac.uk/33895/1/dp2769.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjp5evexbbtAhXLTcAKHe69Aj4QFjAMegQIIBAB&usg=AOvVaw2It1vm8PccL62TN5M2FGLL

We don't know yet if the vaccine prevents transmission, that is why the residents were prioritised - vaccinating the staff will hopefully help, but they have no way of knowing what the impact might be. Therefore vaccinating the most vulnerable first is the right thing to do (if logistically possible). I said a few times (but gave up as the op was particularly nasty and aggressive), it was all over the media that NHS staff may be first due to logistical issues but we all knew the plan had always been for care home staff to be first. If trusts jumped the gun and gave staff appointments that that is on them and they owe staff an explanation and an apology. It was made very clear in my area that they were making plans to start with staff but where also still investigating if logistically care home residents could be first.

Personally I was really disappointed when I heard the residents may have to wait so I will be very happy with the original order resumes. This idea of 'shielding' residents doesn't make any sense, do people think the staff live there and no one leaves?

The 2 week wait is also disappointing.
It all seems so passive, the government must feel they can do anything without challenge.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55194988

That article seems to say 2 week wait for care homes but GPs and hospitals will start in the interim. So who knows what is going on Maybe they have more vaccines than we were told? There have been many reports that there are more on the way.

That article is confusing me

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said it had approved the way doses would be distributed to homes.

It means care home residents and staff may not be the first to receive jabs, despite being the top priority.

Isn’t that contradictory?

I am confused too! I guess we will have to see what happens next week. My trust emails are still saying we are starting on the 14th, I had another email late last night about preparing for the vaccination centre opening.

I’m not at work until Monday and I’m purposely not checking my emails. I’ll let you know ! @MarshaBradyo

Apologies for my emotive post - feeling a bit more balanced now.

Pom don’t apologise it’s so hard and I can completely see why it is

I am terrible, I am off sick recovering from covid but still checking and responding to emails daily I am sure all will become clear very soon.

Pom, no need to apologise, you have not been rude or aggressive at any point, your posts are balanced and helpful.

@PrivateD00r @MarshaBradyo
Thank you being so kind.

I hope you feel better soon private.

It’s utterly shit for everyone I agree. We will have brighter times.
Think Christmas film and mince pies might be in order after swimming duties ! X

I’m a doctor with covid now. I feel absolutely rubbish despite being young and fit.

Really hoped my colleagues would get the jab sooner so they could avoid this. Can’t believe I managed to go so long without catching it and then got it at the last hurdle so to speak.

Can I just please point out, that not all care homes only have elderly residents. Some of ours are in their 40's, with young families who they haven't seen since March.

I was thinking about this today and one thing that occurred and worried me is how anti vaxxers might react. In that, I believe the average length of stay in a care home is two years. If they vaccinate care home residents first, lots of people are going to die very soon after being vaccinated, just because they were going to die soon anyway. This is going to be jumped on by anti vaxxers, we are going to see loads of pictures doing the rounds of social media of somebody's nan who was perfectly fine (no she wasn't) before the covid vaccine and then died. I fear this might undermine confidence in the vaccine in a similar way Wakefield did. I don't know what the solution is though.

@Lifeisshortandbitterswet

Can I just please point out, that not all care homes only have elderly residents. Some of ours are in their 40's, with young families who they haven't seen since March.

Yes, there are many young people in care homes all for different, varying reasons.

The post that someone put about being on end of life care anyway is pretty cruel as even if they are, I've learnt that a peaceful death, not in pain or distress is the most important thing and ideally surrounded by loved ones.

There are of course younger people in care homes, but the JCVI list specifies “care homes for older adults”. Not quite sure what that means.

Visited a relative's care home today. They have their vaccinations all sorted for late next week. Vaccine being collected from hub and GP plus nurse on duty at the home doing all staff and residents, GP then going to two other homes in the same road. I don't know if he is doing all the homes in the town, probably another 3 or 4. Almost exactly how I imagined it would be done, I just thought the nurse could do it without the GP.

All the forms are done, I signed the permission slip for my relative so saw the pile sitting there, obviously wouldn't/couldn't read them but my relatives was pulled out of the pile so I knew what they were.

There are of course younger people in care homes, but the JCVI list specifies “care homes for older adults”. Not quite sure what that means. Linked to their registration I imagine, some homes are registered for more than one age group.

I so agree with KenDodd. The people in care homes (my DF is in one) are often at the end of their lives. Saying that someone has died because of a CV19 vaccine is indeed what some of the anti vaxers will say, bit like stating that the CV19 deaths are anyone who has tested positive in the last 28 days.

Surely they are not still counting people who are say terminal or who die in a car crash but did test postive for CV19 on death? I have a horrible feeling they still are unless anyone can correct me.

There are two separate types of Covid death recording systems. One is an automated system from Public Health England which matches up death records with people who had positive Covid tests in the last 18 days and tallies them up. It will over-count the Covid-sceptics’ fave of the asymptomatic guy who tested positive and was then run over by a bus four weeks later. It will undercount people who die of Covid after five weeks in intensive care or who die of Covid but never receive a positive test for some reason (fewer of those now but a lot at the beginning of the pandemic). It’s rough and ready but it’s quick.

The ONS death stats by contrast go by whether Covid is a major contributing cause of death recorded by a doctor on the death certificate. They are readily available and more specific but they’re slower to report.

Bathroom if you die of covid within 28 days of a positive test it is recorded as a covid death, I think that is probably balanced by people who die 29 or more days after a positive test. Think of someone like Kate Garraway's husband who has been ill for months.

@ancientgran the usual protocols for vaccinations don't currently apply as it's so new, so they may require a doctor initially. I know that usually vaccinations are issued under a general order rather than a individual prescription however that doesn't apply to this so DHs hospital trust was scrambling to find drs to volunteer to prescribe.

wonkylegs it is strange isn't it, you go to my GP and a nurse or HCA gives you vaccines, need vaccines in a home and GP does it. I thought it might be him picking up the vaccines but I didn't go into that much detail. I'm just glad they are doing it. It is a brilliant home and the manager and staff moved in for 2 months earlier in the year to keep the residents safe, they were sleeping in caravans on the car park. I know some of them have kids so it was a big sacrifice and they are probably on minimum wage. Terrible isn't it.

@ancientgran some people are just lovely. They absolutely should not be on minimum wage.