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Original poster

NHS staff now come after care homes for vaccine

367 replies

UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 10:36

The government have just changed their plans - now care homes will get the vaccine before the NHS, which in reality means instead of the NHS at this point since there are only 800,000 vaccines and 1.2 million people in care homes.

I am furious. The PPE provided to doctors and nurses doesn't properly protect them from the HUGE viral load of a patient ill enough to be hospitalised. Only yesterday the government admitted that the rate of Covid-19 infections caught INSIDE hospitals was far too high, and yet doctors and nurses will have to wait, what I expect will be weeks or months for a vaccination. In the meantime, their health and lives and those of their families, and those of other patients in hospital, other staff in hospital, people whose work takes them into hospital or transport workers serving hospitals - all at high risk.

(posted this on another thread already, but it will be lost in the comments)

Care homes can be shielded, NHS staff have a plastic pinny and a paper mask.

OP posts:
Original poster
UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 17:29

@Audreyseyebrows

‘Nurses got pizza. What more do you want?’ Confused

This isn’t my view but was said by my mother.

Does she know they also got the added bonus of Covid-19, some of them died (I know 2). Some of them have PTSD. Some of them can't work due to consequences.
OP posts:
RainbowParadise · 04/12/2020 17:32

@MarshaBradyo

Rainbow can you look more into the JCVI and read the minutes from their meetings before making assumptions?

You may find they have indeed looked at it from overall perspective. And no doubt they have the expertise to do so.

I don't need to look into their minutes to know that more younger people (and I mean 60s/70s, and the ECV of all ages) will die whilst waiting for the vaccine or continuing to suffer the horrendous effects of lockdown. Have the JCVI approached this in the same way as NICE make their decisions about treatments and who receives them? This feels very much about keeping numbers down as opposed to thinking about life years lost or all the other impacts on society as a whole, probably because the government fucked it so early in the pandemic.

Please, please tell me, how it helps all of us as a society if half the staff of the NHS are sick or isolating? How does anybody receive treatment for all other illnesses if that happens (and NHS staff on this thread have been talking about how many staff are off in their posts)? Please tell me how it helps us overall as a society if teachers aren't vaccinated as a priority too, to try and get schools more normal as soon as possible.

Why is it ok for NHS staff to continue to put their lives at risk? And teachers? By all means vaccinate carers, and ensure they are paid properly too at the same time. But to not vaccinate the medical staff who are looking after COVID patients and risking their lives is frankly shameful.

MarshaBradyo · 04/12/2020 17:34

Have the JCVI approached this in the same way as NICE make their decisions about treatments and who receives them?

Honestly the answers are there if you want to find out.

Pomegranatespompom · 04/12/2020 17:40

@PrivateD00r there was no if, staff were given a date.

RainbowParadise · 04/12/2020 17:41

@MarshaBradyo

Have the JCVI approached this in the same way as NICE make their decisions about treatments and who receives them?

Honestly the answers are there if you want to find out.

So are more or less life years going to be lost in the way this vaccine is implemented? Would less people in their 60s/70s die if they were made the priority?
RainbowParadise · 04/12/2020 17:43

@MarshaBradyo

Have the JCVI approached this in the same way as NICE make their decisions about treatments and who receives them?

Honestly the answers are there if you want to find out.

And the same as the SAGE scientists- their decisions are based on pure clinical statistics- around numbers of deaths in this case rather than life years, or even with taking those into account, they don't take into account all the nuances of the knock on effects-mental health being a massive one- of the pandemic
Frequency · 04/12/2020 17:46

The same could be said for care workers, though. It was promised to us then taken away. That was a bit of a kick in the teeth, especially given at the start of the pandemic we were unable to order PPE because it was all earmarked for the NHS and bits of PPE we did manage to get our hands on was sequested by airport staff and re-routed to the NHS all while we had positive Covid cases in our care homes. Add to that the clap for the NHS and extra discounts for NHS workers while care workers also dealing with caring for Covid patients firsthand were sidelined for the most part. We also suffer from poor MH.

Yes, it was cruel for the Government to promise the vaccine to the NHS and then take it away but it was also cruel of them to promise it to care homes and then take it away.

The whole thing is shit for all frontline workers.

Pomegranatespompom · 04/12/2020 17:50

@Frequency yes it’s totally shit. Sorry you are going through this as well.

TheSunIsStillShining · 04/12/2020 17:52

@MarshaBradyo

Have the JCVI approached this in the same way as NICE make their decisions about treatments and who receives them?

Honestly the answers are there if you want to find out.

I couldn't find where they discussed other criteria than the ones in the DHSC modeling tool. Which -as far as I can tell- has nothing to do with wider societal impact, but based purely on health related measurements. The fact that the algorithm isn't public domain kinda doesn't sit well either.
OverTheRubicon · 04/12/2020 18:04

@MarshaBradyo

Have the JCVI approached this in the same way as NICE make their decisions about treatments and who receives them?

Honestly the answers are there if you want to find out.

Yes, and to that point they have explicitly focussed on those most at risk of 'morbidity and mortality' - i.e., the already very elderly and unwell - as opposed to focussing on those with high risk and more to lose i.e., front line NHS, particularly those with other risk factors.

I profoundly disagree with this. We minimise 'covid deaths' but at a higher impact to years of life.

ColdNovemberNights · 04/12/2020 18:05

Care home residents can be shielded

They have been since MARCH!!!!

They need to see their families !

Original poster
UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 18:06

Read the full thread. Things have moved on.

OP posts:
shesellsseashells99 · 04/12/2020 18:06

Care homes. Huge numbers of staff working together. Do you think that when a resident gets covid they automatically go to hosp? No they stay in the home. The staff have just the same exposure, staff will go to one positive resident, into another, into another with a mask, disposable apron gloves etc...I think NHS frontline workers deserve it as much but to think that care staff aren't frontline and shouldn'tbe considered to have it first ? Thousands and thousands and thousands of people have died in care homes. Many staff have died too.

Original poster
UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 18:07

not to mention the NHS frontline workers voluntarily not seeing their families either since they are a very high risk of transmission.

Anyway, a lot of water under the bridge since 10.36 this morning. RTFT before posting ranty stuff.

OP posts:
Original poster
UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 18:08

FGS. If you read the thread, you will see that the frontline NHS and frontline carehome staff agree that it is shit for both and handled badly for both.

OP posts:
Original poster
UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 18:09

If you just read the OP and post something ranty about carehomes being important too, you will just look stupid given how the thread has gone.

OP posts:
justgeton · 04/12/2020 18:11

There are so many elderly in the community who are lonely, and having to venture out to the shops. These are surely just as urgent

Frequency · 04/12/2020 18:12

Care workers and nurses should start an uprising and sieze control of the country. We'd do a much better job than the current lot Grin

shesellsseashells99 · 04/12/2020 18:28

@UnlimitedUnspecific

If you just read the OP and post something ranty about carehomes being important too, you will just look stupid given how the thread has gone.
I read other comments too.
Original poster
UnlimitedUnspecific · 04/12/2020 18:39

Then you would have seen that harmony and reconciliation and mutual support has broken out long ago.
No need to reignite.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 04/12/2020 18:43

I think NHS frontline workers should get the vaccine first. Too many of us have lost colleagues to covid. Care home staff are in the same position except when they are dealing with the dying they don't have the same back up as you.

We risk our lives every day looking after covid patients without adequate PPE, I’m horrified the government has decided care homes come first! You got PPE when carers didn't. You sent infected old people into homes to infect others.

Vile wanting to throw the most vulnerable members of society and carers under the bus. It is all me me me.

ancientgran · 04/12/2020 18:44

No need to reignite. Why not? Do you think some people might be just a little bit ashamed of how quick they were to push the care homes out of the way?

Frequency · 04/12/2020 18:46

You sent infected old people into homes to infect others

Nurses and frontline NHS staff were not responsible for that. That decision was well above their paygrade. It was a shit choice to make but it was not the fault of frontline NHS staff.

Audreyseyebrows · 04/12/2020 18:47

Does she know they also got the added bonus of Covid-19, some of them died (I know 2). Some of them have PTSD. Some of them can't work due to consequences

She knows but chooses not to listen. I’m a nurse (who didn’t have free pizza!). She thinks we’ve ‘been given enough’.

DuckingFogg · 04/12/2020 18:47

@Frequency

Care workers and nurses should start an uprising and sieze control of the country. We'd do a much better job than the current lot Grin
That's very true! Think my dog could probably do a better job tbh!

I work in care, and residents not seeing their families is utter shite, it really is.
However, us and the residents are tested regularly, we're closed to all but essential visitors and we are essentially a closed group. Hospitals aren't, and I think they need to be done first, if they applied some minor organisation skills, you've got buildings there full of people that are medically trained to give injections....... Even a large hospital could be done fairly quickly with the right organisation. Alongside anyone who's in hospital, and/or visiting.
Then move on to care homes (not just elderly) it took a local surgery about half an hour to give all the residents and around 2/3rds of the staff their flu vax where I work, yes a small place, about 50 people in total, but it was organised well by them and us.
I can't help feeling that lack of organisation - like with the releasing of priority group plans, will be the biggest problem here.