NHS staff now come after care homes for vaccine

[UnlimitedUnspecific]

The government have just changed their plans - now care homes will get the vaccine before the NHS, which in reality means instead of the NHS at this point since there are only 800,000 vaccines and 1.2 million people in care homes.

I am furious. The PPE provided to doctors and nurses doesn't properly protect them from the HUGE viral load of a patient ill enough to be hospitalised. Only yesterday the government admitted that the rate of Covid-19 infections caught INSIDE hospitals was far too high, and yet doctors and nurses will have to wait, what I expect will be weeks or months for a vaccination. In the meantime, their health and lives and those of their families, and those of other patients in hospital, other staff in hospital, people whose work takes them into hospital or transport workers serving hospitals - all at high risk.

(posted this on another thread already, but it will be lost in the comments)

Care homes can be shielded, NHS staff have a plastic pinny and a paper mask.

@sproutsandparsnips

Our health board is doing nhs staff first. Some colleagues are booked for next week and I am hoping to get it the week after (frontline staff working on covid ward).

Good - you deserve it - thank you for all you do.

Well it's nice to know you think that my relative, who works in a care home and who has had one week off since March is less "deserving" of a vaccine than NHS staff.

My relative has also had nothing but "a mask and a pinny" and has been unable to socially distance from covid positive residents in the home, because they have dementia.

My relative also has a health issue that we've not been able to get a clear answer about regarding whether it makes them medically vulnerable or not.

They have worked around the clock in this pandemic and have been more at risk than many NHS staff who haven't working on ICU or covid wards (our GP for instance - like the Scarlet Pimpernel, she is) and are also on a fraction of their wage.

Obviously they're not as important though eh, no rainbows in windows for them

Well I certainly won’t be volunteering to work at any vaccination centres unless I get the vaccine myself. I have actually already signed up to do it but I won’t put myself at unnecessary risk. If they want me to be up close with hundreds of people they can vaccinate me.

And I hope to God they have good generator back ups for whatever freezer they’re storing these vaccines in. I can just see that being the next headline and all the doses have been ruined!

Another reason why they should be used ASAP @JacobReesMogadishu

Not totally clear what applies to the devolved nations compared to England but we’ve had communications that we’ll be able to book in for staff vaccinations (NHS hospital, not England) the week of the 14th and the booking link goes live from next week.

@JacobReesMogadishu

Well I certainly won’t be volunteering to work at any vaccination centres unless I get the vaccine myself. I have actually already signed up to do it but I won’t put myself at unnecessary risk. If they want me to be up close with hundreds of people they can vaccinate me.

How does that work then? Two vaccines, 3 weeks apart before you get immunity........

This selfish squabbling over the vaccine is very unedifying.

There are always choices to be made.

Suck it up.

Do you work with people who are covid +? It’s not easy to ‘suck it up’ besides I do think people were squabbling, more dismay at this inept government.

• I don’t think people were squabbling

How does that work then?
Two vaccines, 3 weeks apart before you get immunity........

Well they best get vaccinating the vaccinators fast then. 🤷‍♀️

Though I believe it’s thought there may be some immunity from the first one so maybe I’d risk it if I’d had even the first one. It’s bad enough volunteering to work in a walk in swabbing centre which I’ve been doing but at least people are behind a screen and I can keep my distance.

Maybe someone can invent a screen with an armhole people can just poke their arm through!

Absolutely- people vaccinating should not be out at risk.

I think is probably not that straightforward- nhs staff have still been given appointments.
It’s ridiculous- clinics have been set up, staff are ready.

@ancientgran

That's not nice. Some of the comments have been very very unpleasant, comparing one NHS workers life to 8 elderly people in a care home, the attitude of how long will they live any way, the attitude that NHS staff are tired, stressed and ill as if care workers aren't.

I think this has shown how basically unpleasant a large part of society is and it is quite shocking.

That was my comment, about and it was certainly not about putting a value on lives of elderly care home workers Vs a younger NHS worker. We should aim for zero deaths and act accordingly, on the basis that every avoidable death is a tragedy.

However, we do in reality have limited vaccines. Based on this, what it IS about is putting value on years of life. This is what NICE does when approving medical treatment, but JCVI have chosen not to do, instead looking at morbidity / mortality.

The end result is that those 8 elderly care home residents, get vaccines while a critically vulnerable 14 year old transplant patient, or an NHS worker getting heavy viral load does not. An elderly care home resident has an average of 3 years or less life expectancy, and much of that can be in considerable physical or mental distress. Between them the 8 residents, who have all lived full lives, have 24 years or less ahead of them, in poor health.

That 14 year old, if they die of covid, because they weren't vaccinated and couldn't live a fully isolated life because they had siblings and working parents, has lost 60 years and a chance to have an adult life. That NHS worker has lost 40.

As before, I profoundly disagree with this. It may be that care homes are still the best places to start, but looking at numbers of deaths is not the right measure to use, it's politically more helpful for the government but won't necessarily lead to the right outcomes.

Johnson has yet again raised expectation, mass rolls outs, CH patients, carers, nhs staff etc all done before xmas with 10m doses by the end of the week.

The reality is far less and this has now led to a feeding frenzy.

Nhs and hospitals should come first. Average life expectancy in a care home is less than 2 years

@OverTheRubicon exactly this

My GP colleagues have appointments for vaccination on Wednesday...the whole of Lothian health board front line workers have appointments available...I just haven't sat on the phone for 3 hours to get my appointment yet. So I think some areas will get their health care workers vaccinated early and roll it out to care homes too..we can do both

and here lies the real problem:

"Deploying the vaccines “safely, rapidly and in a sequence which is most likely to reduce mortality” will also be “a very considerable logistical exercise,” they added." The letter was signed by CMO for England Chris Whitty, his counterpart in Scotland Gregor Smith, Frank Atherton in Wales, and Northern Ireland’s Michael McBride.

So, here is proof that nothing but mortality reduction is being considered. Which is going to cause more damage in the long run than not. We will be left with a very high number of avoidable long-covid patients and an overstretched NH who won't be able to do their jobs properly, leading to different other health issues that could have been avoided.

And I have a question re:care homes.
If we assume these facilities are for patients who don't go out on their own, where do they get covid from?

Patients have done into the hospital where I work, for an unrelated issue and died of Covid after there has been an outbreak on the ward. Cancer surgeries, and other life saving surgeries are being cancelled as we can’t do them safely. That’s why it makes sense to vaccinate NHS staff first.

I think experts have looked at who getting the vaccination would benefit the most and even how that would impact the rest of us and we should trust them
Boris hasn't just decided of his own back
Hospitals must vary hugely ad no issue with ppe in my local hospital

@TheSunIsStillShining who do you think goes into care for them , people that live in the community , carers hence why they are due to get vaccination as well
The residents might not go out but carers , gp's , district nurses etc go in to deliver the care

@overTheRubicon you realise the vaccination isn't licensed i don't believe for a 14 year old ,

"the vaccination isn't licensed i don't believe for a 14 year old*
Also, this putative 14-y-o transplant candidate, to possibly survive, firstly needs someone to die, but not of covid, and their organs to be kept in a usable condition in the donor body for some time - personnel- and resource-intensive - and then to undergo personnel- and resource-intensive surgery and receive protracted HDU/ICU care.
If you want that, then clinical staff vaccination has to be the priority. And even then, there would be no guarantee of appropriate bed availability...

More care home residents died in first wave of pandemic than NHS workers so it is right they are most in need of protection. NHS workers are still high up on list after over 80's, care home staff and care home residents.