They called us but job conspiracy theorists...

[cyclingmad]

But look whats come true now, Wales have introduced a health passport.

When some of us were raising this we were told it won't happen, we are unhinged and conspiracy theorists spouting out rubbish.

Look whose laughing now...welcome to your new normal and it'll be be coming to rest of us too.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

It would be a lot easier to say they’re not trying to spread panic if it wasn’t in the SAGE minutes.

What specifically do you mean @AcornAutumn? Do you mean the discussions in SAGE/ COBR meetings that debate the need for them; how to make them etc?

That's been going on since the beginning of the first lockdown... it has to be discussed. There has to have been some investigation nto how it could be done if it were to be deemed necessary! That's you know, being prepared! The very thing they were blamed for not doing earlier this year!

Yes, it has to be discussed

But saying “Need to increase level of personal threat”etc is saying “people aren’t scared enough”.

As is “act as if you have it”. The guilt trip of the ads with the old man saying “stay home to protect me”.

Debate is different. Susan Michie entire career is based on nudge theory. Look at the ministers who weren’t fined for breaking the law and the police bragging about fining the man who went fir a cup of tea at his mates. The police circling the local park with a megaphone saying “you should only be here for exercise”.

That is not rational discussion and action.

My point is that much earlier in yrnlots of people said health passport will be coming now and all got shouted down being called conspiracy theorists, idiots, unintelligent and crazy.

Now we've got ministers etc coming out talking about it so who is exactly unintelligent and crazy now huh.

The point being people happy to dismiss other people call them horrible names and label them but when it transpires to be at he very least clearly being talked about by government then those people weren't so crazy afterall

Same happening with people legitimately deciding because after all they are adults who can decide what happens to their bodies just sharing that they are feeling cautious about getting it being besotted down and labeled anti vaxx.

But why should we have to prove that we’ve had a vaccine for a disease that is mild/asymptomatic for most people? It is nothing like yellow fever! The vaccine doesn’t even guarantee immunity so saying that you’ve had it would mean very little.

@bumbleymummy

But why should we have to prove that we’ve had a vaccine for a disease that is mild/asymptomatic for most people? It is nothing like yellow fever! The vaccine doesn’t even guarantee immunity so saying that you’ve had it would mean very little.

My thoughts too.

Someone may have already made this point, as i only skimmed the conspiracy... but i have such a certificate for my flu vaccine, and had one last year too ( the only years I've ever had it). I also have, from the NHS, an actual booklet which I have carried for decades with the records of all my vaccinations and shots for travel (I have traveled extensively for work and leisure). My insurance has always had sections about healthcare precautions and expectations, and that now also includes covid. If its a conspiracy, its really not a very good one... " please look after yourself and others".

Threads like this remind me of a fun conversation I had with a group of British tourists in a country where malaria and dengue are endemic. When I pointed out the health benefits of taking appropriate precautions, they literally laughed in my face and told me that it wasn't necessary as they were staying in a 5 star hotel. Of course, mosquitoes are known for avoiding people who stay in good hotels...

Health Passports are already a thing my care leavers were issued with them

OP people posting about Bill Gates putting microchips in vaccines and 'health passports' being a form of conspiracy to control us were quite rightly challenged as factually inaccurate. It's not a competition about right or wrong or about intelligence it is simply about people getting information from reliable sources and questioning a bit more, asking why, having faith in facts, not opinions posted on FB or YouTube.

Watching what happens in America is going to be interesting - grim but interesting. They have more than their fair share of anti-vaxxers and are expecting a spike in deaths the week after Christmas. That's one month after get-togethers and travel across states for Thanksgiving. Currently deaths are running at around 1,000 per day there.
Will the January deaths put a dent in the anti-vax social media campaigns?

I've got a card from my childhood with a record of my childhood vaccines. I don't see what the controversy is?

@DianaT1969 3157 deaths in USA yesterday unfortunately

It's really hard discussing this when we interpret things so very differently. But that's the nature of the human beast, isn't it?

“Need to increase level of personal threat” - people need to understand the actual severity of this. The number of people here saying it is just a mild thing for most people, so why bother? There is a disconnect...

“act as if you have it” - yep! I do that. I kno enough peole who are vulnerable and/or scared. So I do them the courtesy of behaving in a manner likely to protect them frm any risk I may present. I don't see the guilt trip... though I know that's all many people do see!

Nudge theory? Susan Michie? ... the price of butter?

Ministers and police - and many other private citizens. There are total dickheads in all walks of life! And as Billy Conolly, Robert Heinlein etc have said once said “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one. Don't vote. It just encourages them....”

@bumbleymummy
"But why should we have to prove that we’ve had a vaccine for a disease that is mild/asymptomatic for most people?"

Possibly because countries want to eradicate Covid, as we have with other diseases. If you think of it in terms of rabies and pets needing a vaccination passport, then it makes sense.

@cyclingmad, do you not know anyone who is vulnerable to flu? Do you normally wash your hands and keep slightly away from elderly people anyway, before Covid? Or are vaccinations in your mind, just about you?

Vaccinations are recorded somehow regardless, whether that's on a card, a red book or a yellow book. What matters and what we do not know yet is what the entry requirements (if any) will be set by other countries and for certain situations going forward. I guess this is what the OP and others are alarmed about. For example if a holiday destination country requires proof of a Covid vaccination you may be forced into making a decision about taking the vaccine or not travelling to a particular country. The card or 'passport' is just a means of facilitating this proof should it be required. This situation already exists for travel to certain countries and people will take vaccines without hesitation.

Why would conspiracy theorists feel alarmed about a country requiring proof of vaccine before entering? Surely they should feel reassured that this a country aiming for higher herd immunity and less chance of transmission. While anti-vaxxers might not believe in the virus, or it being a personal danger to them, they should at least welcome the return to near normality rollout of the vaccine will achieve. Less chance of sudden lockdowns. Less state intervention in our daily lives.
Feel secure and reassured anti-vaxxers. You might not be welcome in these countries, but slowly life around the globe will get back to (near) normal due to vaccine requirements for entry.

I wish I'd known this when I was given my steroid card. I wouldn't have accepted it...

Take it in good grace op. I put a howler of a post up the other day, in good faith, I was so upset I'd misread something. Everyone commented on it, some nastily yes, but that's mn for you. I took the post down after saying I'd misread. Maybe now is the time for you to admit it's not actually as you thought?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

It's really hard discussing this when we interpret things so very differently. But that's the nature of the human beast, isn't it?

“Need to increase level of personal threat” - people need to understand the actual severity of this. The number of people here saying it is just a mild thing for most people, so why bother? There is a disconnect...

“act as if you have it” - yep! I do that. I kno enough peole who are vulnerable and/or scared. So I do them the courtesy of behaving in a manner likely to protect them frm any risk I may present. I don't see the guilt trip... though I know that's all many people do see!

Nudge theory? Susan Michie? ... the price of butter?

Ministers and police - and many other private citizens. There are total dickheads in all walks of life! And as Billy Conolly, Robert Heinlein etc have said once said “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one. Don't vote. It just encourages them....”

Nudge theory - ways to make people panic about a virus that’s not worth panicking about.

Do you normally walk around worrying you’ve got pneumonia? When I was hospitalised with it, I was out shopping in the day, had no idea I was ill, then collapsed.

It was a weekend so I rang work in a panic on Monday in case anyone else got it. They were “meh” about it.

Without being bombarded with “info” about covid, would you have seen last winter as any different? For me it was 2 deaths in over 80s, one hospitalisation over 70, a few over 50 with a bad bug.

Did you fret about all this in the last few flu seasons?

I’m actually a germophobe who constantly washed my hands, which used to make me a freak. I never expected things to turn out like this, I’m now considered relaxed!

I'm in my mid 50s, am self employed and have ME/CFS.

How do you think I feel about flu etc?

I know what nudge theory is, but can't see why you've specifically related it to covid. It's what all politicians, party and otherwise, advertisers, MLMers, and many others, do all the time. We live with it around us...

@PhilCornwall1

I just had a flu jab. The doctor gave me a bit of paper that said I'd had a flu jab. The massive fucking prick. I bet he's tracking me now. Pervert.

Bastards short changed me!! I didn't, nor a packet of chocolate buttons because I had been brave!!

I had my 2 year old with me for my flu jab and she was mightily indignant that having been so brave watching me get a jab she didn't get a sticker! She'll be raging if she finds out she's missed out on a bit of paper too.

@TragedyHands

I know. I've a few friends who are looking sheepish when I remind them what is actually happening, after they called me a tin hat conspiracist.

I don't think sheepish was quite the expression they were going for.

@pinkearedcow

I think it is time *@MNHQ* took a bit of responsibility about the shite being peddled about the vaccine. A sticky on the coronavirus board warning about misinformation would be a start.

I asked mn about this when I reported similar conspiracy theory rubbish. Perhaps it needs a proper email.

I've asked as well. They don't see it as a problem.

I would hope and expect countries to require evidence of the vaccination. Why would they risk an increase of cases potentially arriving in their country.

I'm struggling to understand why you wouldn't want documentation of a Covid vaccine.
Many countries require an International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (ICVP)for Yellow Fever, ACWY or Polio as an entry requirement.
A few folk can't have it for medical reasons and an exemption certificate can be issued otherwise you choose to either have the vaccine or not travel to the destination.

@QueenBlueberries

I've asked as well. They don't see it as a problem.

Apparently facebook are going to do something. Knowing fb I'm not holding my breath, but it might slow down the unrelenting tide of misinformation. I think most social media platforms need a policy now. It's irresponsible not to.