So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

If Rona jab becomes compulsory to visit a supermarket or enter my workplace. I am going to refuse all other possible vaccines. Might be only way left to protest.

It's very reminiscent of HIV. We were all terrified of sex in the 80s. The icebergs or doom

We are here because scientists developed multiple therapies that allow those with the virus to live a normal life and have a viral load so low they cannot infect others. We have post exposure prophylaxis and the campaign of which you speak was very effective at communicating the safe sex message.

I shudder to think what might have happened if social media had been around then 'the government can't control me, I'll have unprotected sex if I want, these scientists know nothing'.

It is not practical to carry proof of vaccinations everywhere you go, nor will it be practical for proof to be checked.

Agree with this. It's hardly the work of a moment to put in place the infrastructure to do this. By the time the government goes out to tender, has a couple of failed implementations (Capita, Accenture, etc.), wasted a few billion, a few years will have passed.

Lots of the Covid-specific antivaxxers, like the OP, won't have it for a couple of reasons - they fear the new vaccine as 'untested' and they fear its effects on children.

But most of us won't even be offered this vaccine for many months, and children aren't being offered it at all. (I imagine they will eventually.) So the whole whipped-up hysteria is nonsense - after millions worldwide have had these vaccines before your chance to have it arises, you may well feel differently.

As for rights - it is a very obvious case of competing rights. Your right to refuse medical intervention v the rights of others not to contract a disease that has killed nearly 60,000 people in the UK alone. A disease whose longterm or mediumterm effects on survivors we do not fully understand.

Exercising your right not to vaccinate tramples the rights of others to live without the consequences of Covid.

I'm not clear on why your freedom not to vaccinate wins out over someone else's right to breathe.

I don't expect compulsion, I expect that some things will be difficult or impossible to do without one, perhaps flying.

I have said it before and I will say it again. If COVID-19 looked like smallpox, we would not be having this discussion. Here in the USA, certain vaccines are mandatory and with the exception of a few tin-hat types, no one thinks twice about it. IF vaccines are compulsory here, I expect about 30% of the country to be up in arms, and the rest will say, "I would have gotten the first safe, effective vaccine anyway. I'd love to live through this."

Dont have an issue with being vaccinated but I'll be pissed off if I am am restricted from society for months because I'm at the bottom of the vaccine list. I hope they dont put these proposals (if indeed they are proposals) in place until everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccination.

I agree with you OP.
And I’m really not anti-vax in any way. I volunteered for the coronavirus vaccine trials and will have the vaccine when available. I just don’t personally agree with compulsory vaccinations.
And whatever they do I hope it’s not done through the bloody app. My phone is old and the app doesn’t work.

@Headspinner2020 hospitals in the north are not that quiet.

My hospital a&e daily often has over 100 patients at any one time. We have a few wards just for covid and a very busy critical care. Every day our bed state is red/black (the worse it can be) Just because an area with a low infection rate is quiet doesn’t mean the rest of us are.

The positive thing is social distancing/mask wearing and other restrictions seem to be having an impact on some winter viruses. Considering covid is still taking up lots of beds this is probably a good thing!

I don’t think every pub/cinema/ restaurant etc is going to demand vaccine proof before accepting people. They need people’s money after this year and will seriously be limiting their market.

I could see large theatre/concert halls etc where distancing is an issue, but I doubt for a permanent length of time.

Travel will be different as different countries will have very varied rules, some no doubt with very low covid rates I’d imagine will be very strict in vaccination.

I don’t agree with compulsory vaccines, despite being pro vaccine. Our bodies our choice. But I’m beyond sick of this pandemic in work and giving me nothing to do in my down time, and it’s a way out, I trust science. It’s come a long way since thalidomide ( not a vaccine).

The government are not making vaccination mandatory. Privately owned businesses and sovereign nations may choose to do so as a condition of entry. The government cannot control this.

OP - if a significant amount of us refuse to be vaccinated, how do you think we will get to a point where we can open theatres, sporting venues, concert venues and have thousands of people inside at a time? How will such places be profitable if people can’t be assured that they won’t end up unwell as a result? Restaurants? Bars? Clubs? What about people who have conditions such as type 1 diabetes - a no fault condition - should they be forced to live the rest of their lives in fear? If you want some form of normality in your life, you are going to ha e to accept the vaccine.

don’t think every pub/cinema/ restaurant etc is going to demand vaccine proof before accepting people. They need people’s money after this year and will seriously be limiting their market

I think it depends as this could be argued both ways. If the majority of people have the vaccine (which is likely) and then if they don’t feel safe going to places where they might mix with people who haven’t had the vaccine (because who knows if they’re one of the 10% where it hasn’t worked) then actually it might make business sense to turn the non vaccinated away as then the vaccinated are more likely to come? 🤷‍♀️

Though I’d guess that when most people have had the vaccine they’ll feel safe and happy to mix with whoever.

OP, firstly it's highly unlikely the sort of scheme you are proposing could be administered by the government. Its complex and difficult to administer in our society. Secondly you are screeching about your "rights" why don't you focus on your responsibilities, your responsibility to engage with vaccination to protect as many people as possible. If you do the latter passports don't really mater do they?
As for travel outside of the uk it's no different to requiring proof of TB inoculation from arrivals.

I agree with you op. I want my parents and PIL to have the vaccine as I think the pros outweigh the cons. I'd prefer not to have it as I have no risk factors and would likely recover from covid.

But we love to travel and go to gigs. I would consider putting those things off for another year to see what the longer term side effects were. Or possibly to have the vax and travel only with dh for a year. Our dc are not having it straight away that's for sure.

Hopefully, as said unthread, by the time the vaccine is rolled out to the less vulnerable, there will be more calm and businesses will not feel the need to ask for proof of vaccine.

@Gancanny

Vaccine damage is rare - very rare - and most adverse effects from vaccines tend to be more or less immediate.

Why do people keep parroting this notion that the risk is tiny and long term side effects rare?

These vaccines use new technology never used before. It's incorrect to assume that they will behave in the same way as traditional tried and tested vaccines

@ScottishStottie

Your free choice is there. As is the free choice of various businesses that may want to safeguard their staff and customers by restricting access to people who have not had the vaccine. Simple as that.

If you dont want the vaccine your access to some areas may be limited, but that is your choice, and choices have consequences. Pros amd cons on both sides that each person can weigh up.

Absolutely agree with this.

@Gigheimer

I have the same fears OP

The vaccine has been produced so quickly because its had a fuck-tonne of money thrown at it, there was already existing research into coronovirus vaccines that was able to be carried across, research was shared between teams, the various stages were run concurrently, and there were no pauses for grant applications, shortages of test volunteers, etc. None of the development stages associated with vaccine production were missed.

^ this!!
This is why vaccines take years, they have to apply for grants and boards etc! That is what takes years for vaccines to come out! Research on coronavirus' hasn't just started in March! People have been researching them for years!
I'm going to be first in line to get the vaccine. As a nurse it's mandatory to be vaccinated and also be vaccinated against hepatitis B. I'm getting tested twice a week and dread bringing this virus home to my family!
Some people I know have only been affected mildly from the virus others are at the opposite end and have been seriously ill and some have died. It's so unpredictable! These are young and old.
As pp have said it's the same as lockdown for if you don't want the vaccine, get your shopping delivered and stay away from crowded places.

If you're not vaccinated you're a risk to the health of others who can't have the vaccine or who it doesn't work for, so not surprising that airlines, immigration boards, large venues, etc are considering limiting access to those who are vaccinated. I'd imagine travel insurance will charge you more in the future if you're not vaccinated too.

If you don't have the vaccine how can you be a risk to people who can't have the vaccine? The people that can't have it won't be allowed those places anyway 🤷‍♀️

It is worrying, my dd has a severe phobia of needles so there's no way she'll ever get the vaccine, she's missed out on many already.

@user1497207191
As said by someone above, the staff in shops, pubs and public transport deserve to have the same "free choice" to be safe in their workplace and not risk catching covid because of people who refuse the vaccine. This is another case of "whose rights trump other peoples' rights".

I would say the rights of people to stay alive and healthy trump the rights of others to make them ill or kill them.

@EasterIssland

What would be the proposal / alternative then til we have a vaccine and we’ve seen it’s long side effects (3-4 years?)

Maybe they should have started by developing vaccines that do not use technology that is so novel. If that had been the case perhaps people would not be so scared and more willing to have them

@MarcelineMissouri

Totally agree *@ScottishStottie*

Me too 100%

I'm not against the broad principle of needing to be vaccinated to fully participate in society... as long as there is an actual, proper, doctor-certified exemption for those who actually can't get it done, because it's not compatible with their current treatment.

I don't like the idea of banning some of the most clinically vulnerable from society. We're getting the vaccine to protect them, so it seems counterintuitive to ban them from everything.

Self-certified exemptions are pointless because, in the words of House, "everybody lies". However, in this case, the people who need exemptions would be actively undergoing medical care anyway, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get their consultants to tick a box on their medical records.

If you don't have the vaccine how can you be a risk to people who can't have the vaccine? The people that can't have it won't be allowed those places anyway

You’d like to think people with a medical exemption would be allowed in such places, otherwise places may breech disability discrimination laws, etc.