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Covid

So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

947 replies

Gigheimer · 30/11/2020 23:12

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right Hmm

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

OP posts:
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user1481840227 · 01/12/2020 03:01

Do you have kids, are they vaccinated as per a national schedule
This isn't any different


It is different as the other vaccines went through much longer periods of testing.

You opt in to a meal out, you opt in to a sports fixture or music gig so you opt in to whether you have a vaccine to enable that.

Is that really what you think should happen? even after we are officially out of a pandemic?

Let's say the pandemic is considered to be over by this time next year. An extremely high % of the population have been vaccinated...do you really think that sports venues and music venues should still be insisting on covid vaccinations in 2022 even though the virus is barely circulating? and if so then why just covid? someone could be vaccinated against covid and attend the same sporting event with their vaccine passport...but they might have influenza and pass it to someone there who ends up dying.

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Silvergreen · 01/12/2020 03:06

There'll be no compulsory vaccinations. It'll be impossible to enforce. Businesses will care more about their bottom line.

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Jumbogirl · 01/12/2020 03:09

Yes Gigheimer Flowers thanks for starting this thread. Yes to protests and NO to mandatory vaxxing.

Unfortunately the next protests in London are going to be hijacked by violent government "protesters" who want to stop freedom of speech and civil liberties. It's going to be tough on the streets at the next protests.

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ShrikeAttack · 01/12/2020 03:17

I've always thought it's been a bit odd that naysayers are deemed to be a bit outrė. Why shouldn't people be allowed a voice?

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ShrikeAttack · 01/12/2020 03:27

It's very reminiscent of HIV. We were all terrified of sex in the 80s. The icebergs or doom..

We're all still here.

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WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 01/12/2020 03:47

I completely agree with you, OP, and certain other PPs, but unfortunately, COVID and the rationality/proportionality of responses to it have become one of those things that you're just not allowed to question - at least not without being called all of the insults under the Sun and branded a granny-murderer.

As I thought you made very clear (but many seemed to believe differently), it is not technically compulsory, but if you are not allowed to live any kind of normal basic life without it, it effectively does become compulsory.

I'd say it's along the same lines as there being no UK law that forces you to have a bank account - but just try living any kind of normal life without one. Accessing the internet is quickly heading that way, too; the great many elderly folk (and others) who do not trust or understand it and/or have no interest in it or confidence in learning to get online are currently able to live a vastly inferiorly-served life without it, but I don't think it's going to be long before any vestige of choice is effectively removed, along with the assurance that a 95yo bedbound person can easily toddle along to the library and access it there, thus 'nobody is excluded'.

In fact, we're seeing a similar thing with the masks now. There are people who have genuine medical reasons not to have to wear them (some of them simply cannot breathe with one on), but although they are legally exempt, we all know exactly what response they are receiving in reality if they dare to go out in public and try to buy food or access other essential services. It's basically a form of democratically-endorsed discrimination and hatred against the disabled.

If this were like The Plague where almost everybody who contracted it would soon die a painful death, I'd understand the reaction far more; but it's a virus which has no or minor effects on virtually everybody who gets it.

I will get abused for this view, but I also think the total official number of deaths is legitimately questionable and fundamentally flawed, when anybody who tests positive (or, in the early days, was assumed to be, based on often-generic symptoms) and dies of ANY cause within four weeks is counted as a COVID death. The most vulnerable to COVID are also virtually all those who are already most vulnerable of dying from old age and/or existing health conditions. Over 1,800 people die in the UK every year from road accidents and doubtless all of those will have drunk water in the week before they tragically die - but nobody in their right mind would ever dream of attributing their deaths to 'consumption of assumed-poisoned water'. Of course, I accept that COVID or any kind of virus will sometimes ultimately be the reason for (or a major contributing factor to) the death of a vulnerable person, but there are no guarantees whatsoever that it is undeniable fact in every single case. Indeed, for all we know, a young, fit person could contract COVID and then fall off a sheer cliff on to jagged rocks below, a fortnight later and, going on the stated statistical criteria, be subsequently accounted for as a COVID death.

I also think it's very interesting that it's being hailed as the perfect fail-safe solution to protecting the population from a 99.5%+ non-serious virus by rushing out now to administer a vaccine that has, so far, been declared to be anything between 70-95% effective.

The comparisons with things like seat belts and airport security measures are crazy. A seat belt is external and does not have a continuing effect once removed. I'm happy to accept that I cannot travel abroad on a plane , should I refuse to comply with the regulations; indeed, have long been denied the right to go abroad at all should I refuse to obtain and pay for a passport. What I can't accept is that I potentially could not even buy food anywhere in my own neighbourhood unless I agree to have chemicals and organisms irreversibly inserted into my body, regardless of what those ingredients may or may not be; and if I DO 'agree' to it (the alternative being basically an inability to survive), what step comes next 'for the safety of everybody' - ensuring that I don't hold any non-government-sanctioned views or beliefs which would thus define me as a 'potential terrorist' and similarly see me banned from shops or any other public places unless I renounce them? It's about fundamental personal liberty - and promising to ensure somebody's freedom under virtually impossible conditions is no real liberty at all.

I await a flaming.

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lovelemoncurd · 01/12/2020 03:50

You should be restricted if you don't get vaccinated. You are putting others at risk. This isn't about the will of one. It's about the public health of many.

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Mummyoflittledragon · 01/12/2020 03:53

@Coyoacan

I find it odd all this emphasis on everyone having the vaccine, when there are something like nine billion people in the world. I think we'll be lucky if the people who really need it can be vaccinated within the next six months.

I worry that first world countries are planning to buy up all the vaccines so that they can vaccinate lots of people who are minimally at risk and leave the vulnerable in the third world without a vaccine.

This comment deserves repeating. We have all become incredibly selfish.

Personally having had adverse reactions to two prescription drugs, which have ruined my health, I do not want this vaccine. I wish to wait for the one for the immunocompromised. Idk how easy that will be to get once developed.
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Jumbogirl · 01/12/2020 04:02

No flaming @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll Flowers Very well said Smile

This is about fundamental human rights now - it comes down to just two issues right now - the right to peaceful protest and the right to say NO to mandatory vaxxing.

Unfortunately the next protests in London are going to be hijacked by violent government "protesters" (not the rebel MPs - God bless them). Some of our MPs now want to stop freedom of speech and civil liberties. This is what happens in repressive regimes.

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MartiniDry · 01/12/2020 04:04

If this 'compulsory by any other name' vaccine plan goes ahead I look forward to the response of the Job Centre staff when numerous claimants are unable to take up positions because they decline to be vaccinated. That's if they're allowed into the Job Centre in the first place, of course.

I look forward even more to the panic and bluster from Johnson when it dawns on him how much those claimants are going to cost and just how long they'll be claiming employment benefits for.

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newstart1337 · 01/12/2020 04:06

@user1481840227
"There's a difference between being an anti-vaxxer and being cautious about rushed vaccines"

Between believing the worlds best experts and some random person on the internet... I will be trusting the experts.

If conspiracy theorists want to form their own 'bubble' and infect themselves ad infinitum then please go to an uninhabited island to prove your expert knowledge!

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oatmilk4breakfast · 01/12/2020 04:17

It’s a civil liberties issue if the Govt make it so that people can’t work or travel without it but do not produce enough or regularly enough to vaccinate everyone. My faith in them is low given the test and trace shambles. There’s no guarantee this vaccine is one time only. It likely needs to be topped up every year. Who is going to pay for EVERYONE in country to get this done every year?

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PhilCornwall1 · 01/12/2020 04:20

Compulsory covid vaccine you say? My god that's a MN wet dream right there!

At least the endless neighbour reporting threads and "I'm in Tier 322 can I do this?" Will be replaced with something else now.

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WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 01/12/2020 04:20

Between believing the worlds best experts and some random person on the internet... I will be trusting the experts.

Does that extend to all matters of government? You wouldn't dream of criticising government policies and decisions on taxation, UC, national spending priorities (such as HS2 and Trident when multitudes of children are relying on food banks)? After all, the government has access to the best and most experienced financial experts there are, so we'd better not discuss or question it, eh? Silly, interfering Marcus Rashford, what would he know....?

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garlictwist · 01/12/2020 04:23

I don't understand why you wouldn't get the vaccine. What's the issue?

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WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 01/12/2020 04:34

I don't understand why you wouldn't get the vaccine. What's the issue?

The issue is the de facto compulsory nature of it. I'm sure the vast majority of people would gladly take it, but it is something that's injected into the body and that should not be something the state can force on you.

I don't understand why Jehovah's Witnesses would refuse a life-saving blood transfusion (I know their reasoning, but I don't interpret it the same way); but I would never suggest that an adult JW should be forced to have blood transfused into their body against their will - or be denied all other NHS medical care if they insist - however crazy that decision might seem to the rest of us: it's their body, not mine.

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marsiettina · 01/12/2020 04:34

I’ll quite happily let people who want the vaccine go ahead of me in the queue.

The vaccine has never promised to offer herd immunity or stop people from catching Covid. From what I understood is that if you have the vaccine then it’s less likely you’ll get seriously ill from Covid.

I cannot believe how you can get called names, just because you question whether it’s safe to annually vaccinate yourself with a rushed through vaccine, which in some cases have not been trialled on a variety of ages.

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FrenchFancie · 01/12/2020 04:35

Just to try to ally the fears of those that worry about the short development time of the vaccine - it’s because 99% of the vaccine isn’t new. (At least this holds true for the Oxford vaccine). It’s a pre existing vaccine that was developed for SARS and has been used for a number of years in the Middle East. All the Oxford team did (and this was clever) is change the ‘spike’ protein from the SARS one to the COVID one. But all the rest of the vaccine remains the same, is safe and very well tested and well tolerated in populations for a number of years.

Plus there have been wide scale tests - literally hindered a of thousands of people across the globe have taken the vaccine without massive ill effect - the overall risk from an adverse reaction is very very low, and certainly lower than an adverse reaction from COVID.
It may feel like this was knocked together in a garden shed somewhere and tested on the scientists dog, but it’s very far from the truth - it is a safe effective vaccine.
As soon as I am able, I will be taking it.

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ShrikeAttack · 01/12/2020 04:43

I'm with you @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

It's madness that you can't participate in life if you are not vaccinated. It's not up to the government to vaccinate me against anything. C19 is a virus that ultimately affects very few of the population to any degree. The average age of mortality from this virus is 82. 82! I love my parents but none of us are into life at all costs.

Much of this is social media madness. It's utterly bonkers. It's gone beyond sense really.

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ShrikeAttack · 01/12/2020 04:50

Actually, I think the biggest takeaway from this whole fiasco is how poorly educated much of the world are. We should take it upon ourselves to get a collectuve fucking grip

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Beautiful3 · 01/12/2020 04:55

I agree with you. I'm not anti vaccination, but wouldnt dream of taking something thats less than 10 years old. I'd want to know what the side effects are. I've met a severely disabled person who was born that way, because her mother took a new "safe" drug whilst pregnant with her. I wouldnt trust the government unless I'd seen people vaccinated over the years without side effects.

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Pronounciata · 01/12/2020 05:14

This is an interesting 'debate' between the two sides of the argument between an ethicist and a public health academic

The arguments for and against are coming from the opposite direction to what I expected.

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WindFlower92 · 01/12/2020 05:29

I completely agree OP. I have all my jabs, DD does too. I was mainly willing to get this one too (not while pregnant though). This puts me off a little though as it does seem a bit sinister. What happened to allowing us to trust in the science? Is this going to be the case forever or just for the next year or so? I'm actually quite angry that something like this is used on a virus like covid, rather than on measles. If there's ever a time for 'enforced vaccine it's with something that is way more dangerous than covid! My SIL is anti vax, and was recently talking about maybe getting the MMR for her kids. This is going to completely put her off all vaccines she may have just been coming round to. We're already seeing a massive dip in MMR uptake, and this will just increase the lack of trust further. Time for a measles outbreak clearly!

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Takethereigns · 01/12/2020 05:36

I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
Airlines may be able to implement it quite easily, by linking details to your passport, and countries can make it a visa condition but what system is your local bus or train going to use to check you are vaccinated?
Same goes for shops, cinemas and the rest.

Oh I’ve got it! They can scan you like a dog and read the chip that’s going to be implanted 😏.

The government don’t have a high success rate for rolling out the sort of technology and programs required.

Remember their trace app
Their NHS system
ID cards.

Once the country is bankrupt from the combination of covid and brexit, there will be no money to pay for such things.

It is not practical to carry proof of vaccinations everywhere you go, nor will it be practical for proof to be checked.

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WhiskyForChristmas · 01/12/2020 05:43

We don't even know yet how often, if at all, people would need to get boosters etc. (which really builds you trust and in a vaccine that interferes with your mRNA....).

I'm very thankful that a) it will take them forever to get to my age group and b) I don't have a smartphone, so no app for me anyway. Curious how they would want to deal with that in practical terms.

(I, too, am fully vaccinated, not anti-vaxx at all - but no doubt, people will miss that info).

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