So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

The reason anti-vaxers can choose not to vaccinate is because the majority of us do vaccinate. That gives them safety. If we all had chosen not to vaccinate over the decades there would be considerable damage and death to a very large amount of people.

8 pages in and you still haven’t answered the question. @Gigheimer what do you want to happen? How long do you think we should continue as we are until you deem a vaccine is safe?

With many things you have no free choice. You just think you do. Can you grow illegal drugs in your back garden? nope because they are illegal.

Do you drive? You have passed a test and have been "forced to do so" by the system
Same for having a bank account or owning a house or even renting a house.

It's a bit like on-line -better deals online and certain places will say -you have to do that "on line" -where did -that we weren't going to be "forced" online or still be allowed cheques etc.All that was "promised" and got taken away.

At one of my DC you have to "supply 20p in cash" each day for toast. You can not give them £1 for the week. You can not do it on line or supply £10 for the term. That's the rule. No 20p no piece of toast at break time. It is so annoying. But if I don't do it- they don't get their toast end of.

The vaccine will start off not being compulsory and they will hope people will do it -but then it will become -if you have the vaccine you can attend you hospital appointment on the day straight from work, no vaccine -you have to isolate for 14 days before your appointment and 14 days after -that's a month of your life.

Then after a bit longer-it might be -you have to prove isolation.........etc they will make it as difficult as possible until it is just far easy to get it.

[quote trulydelicious]@EasterIssland

What would be the proposal / alternative then til we have a vaccine and we’ve seen it’s long side effects (3-4 years?)

Maybe they should have started by developing vaccines that do not use technology that is so novel. If that had been the case perhaps people would not be so scared and more willing to have them[/quote]
There are some on the way being developed but are taking longer. Should we wait for them whatever it’s living like we currently are ?

@mandarinpink

The reason anti-vaxers can choose not to vaccinate is because the majority of us do vaccinate. That gives them safety. If we all had chosen not to vaccinate over the decades there would be considerable damage and death to a very large amount of people.

The herd immunity thing is there for people who can't have the vax for reasons such as chemotherapy- not a choice.

It’s not flu or other vaccines is it? This virus ground the world to a halt. I have vulnerable people in my family and I would want them to stay alive and healthy.

I absolutely agree op, this whole thing is dreadful. The vaccine may not be compulsory in name but if a load of places won't allow people in (especially basic places like workplaces, public transport, food stores) then yes, it becomes compulsory in all but name.

I am not an anti-vaxxer, I've had them all and even the 'flu jab this year, which I don't normally have.
But the news about the COVID jab (discussed this morning on BBC news) in relation to the so-called vaccine 'passport' is frightening.

It's true that mandatory jabs have been around for a while for travel...when I went to South America I had to have Yellow Fever certificate to go into the jungle. To my mind, that's fair enough, it was a choice of mine to go.

But in my home country, daily transport, shops and the workplace is a necessity, not a choice. I worry about the COVID vaccine and although I would consider it in the long-term, at the moment I'm concerned about the speed at which it has been rolled out. Over time it will be refined and much better, I don't want to risk the long-term effects of something so new. And I say that having had COVID already.

I'm in my 60's, I was born during the Thalidomide years and grew up with my mother telling me I only escaped because her 'old fashioned' doctor refused to use the new morning sickness drug, he said it was too soon and hadn't been tested enough. It took them until the early 1960s to admit there was a problem and withdraw its use for pregnant women.
Likewise the 1976 swine 'flu jab also created problems for many, many receivers.

It's seriously, seriously worrying when our freedoms are removed.

The selfishness of some is staggering. It’s this that has bothered me the most during this pandemic. I just didn’t realise.

I have no understanding why anyone wouldn't want a vaccine that saves lives - theirs and others. So weird....

@Coyoacan

I worry that first world countries are planning to buy up all the vaccines so that they can vaccinate lots of people who are minimally at risk and leave the vulnerable in the third world without a vaccine.

Maybe thirld world countries will have a lucky escape with this one

The vaccine has been produced so quickly because its had a fuck-tonne of money thrown at it, there was already existing research into coronovirus vaccines that was able to be carried across, research was shared between teams, the various stages were run concurrently, and there were no pauses for grant applications, shortages of test volunteers, etc. None of the development stages associated with vaccine production were missed.
This x 10.
The fast production is a proof of how awesome science is when scientists are paid, not the footballers. Does the public know that Oxford post docs and academics in general have very low pay, compounded by the fact that their unpaid work is considered a part of the package? It’s horrendous and then people ask why Messi couldn’t save the world right away.

The herd immunity thing is there for people who can't have the vax for reasons such as chemotherapy- not a choice.

I don't think they're saying that herd immunity is meant to protect these people - just that the anti-vaxxers are inadvertently also protected by it.

So, not actually compulsory then. 🙄

@Pechanga

I have no understanding why anyone wouldn't want a vaccine that saves lives - theirs and others. So weird....

Because it’s not been tested long enough to know if there’s any long term effect? It’s not been tested on all age groups? It’s being rolled out after only a few months of testing?

I don’t want it, I don’t want my dc to have it, I have a child who had a bad reaction to a vaccine (please don’t tell me I’m lying or it’s not true, it’s very true). I’m not anti vac but I do believe everyone should have a choice what they put into their bodies without being judged by others.

Have posters forgotten that the majority of us and our children, have already had many vaccines?

Regarding travel, it’s been routine for us to need extra vaccinations in order to visit certain countries.

So what’s the problem?

I don't have an issue with a vaccine for covid but I certainly my won't be one of the first lined up to be a guinea pig for a brand new vaccine

Those arguing that it might not be safe should educate themselves.

Well, Gove has just been on Sky and said that "passports" won't be required to get into places.

So, based on his past performances, that'll be a "yes, they will be required". 🤔

Unfortunately the next protests in London are going to be hijacked by violent government "protesters" who want to stop freedom of speech and civil liberties. It's going to be tough on the streets at the next protests

Evidence, please?

This thread is bonkers. The first in line for vaccinations are care home residents. It will be a long, long time before everyone is vaccinated. Do you really think businesses are going to refuse people entry for months on end when half of them are facing ruin? By the time we get to the point where it is practicable for businesses to do this, everyone will be much more used to the idea anyway, except for the hard nut anti-vaxxers.

I think airlines will ask for people to be vaccinated and so we may have to pay to get it done if we want to fly. What's wrong with that? Flying is a luxury not a right. It's no different from having to get a vaccination for yellow fever to visit some parts of the world.

I am far more worried about what will happen if the vaccines turn out to be less effective than we hope. That is scary.

The Oxford/AatraZeneca vaccine isn't based on mRNA, and it's the one that looks much more likely to be rolled out to the wider population since the transport and storage requirements are much simpler than the other candidates.

@WanderingMilly

The vaccine may not be compulsory in name but if a load of places won't allow people in (especially basic places like workplaces, public transport, food stores) then yes, it becomes compulsory in all but name.

In some UK companies in some roles being vaccinated for e.g. Yellow Fever has been compulsory for decades, so a workplace requirement wouldn't be breaking new ground.

I can't personally see vaccination being a requirement for everyday activities such as shopping or travel within a country, it couldn't be policed. OTOH I do think for international travel it may well a case of "back to the future" that some of us here will be old enough to remember - i.e. travelling armed with passports, Visas and proof of vaccination or proof of exemption.

@PhilCornwall1

Well, Gove has just been on Sky and said that "passports" won't be required to get into places.

So, based on his past performances, that'll be a "yes, they will be required". 🤔

Not up to the Government if individual companies want to decide not to accept unvaccinated then that's their business

@Gigheimer

Yo u call that free choice? We don’t demand it for measles, TB, Flu or anything else we trust to public uptake and prepare the NHS to deal with the rest.

Well we should demand it for measles, Tb etc. The number of students at university getting debilitating diseases as a result is awful. Thanks to parents ignoring medical advice.

I think that kids should not be allowed to school without full Immunisation certificates like some other countries do

Make it as hard as possible for people refusing to have it

Not up to the Government if individual companies want to decide not to accept unvaccinated then that's their business

Did I say it was?