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Covid

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

947 replies

Gigheimer · 30/11/2020 23:12

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right Hmm

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

OP posts:
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Duggeehugs82 · 01/12/2020 16:15

If they r prepared to not they they have to deal with the consequences of it and then cannot be upset that they will not have the same benefits of the people who have vaccinated.

LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb · 01/12/2020 16:18

False. Unless you are talking about all vaccines rather than just this particular vaccine. Not wanting to have one particular vaccine does not make someone antivaxx in general. HTH

We already know you are anti-vaxx in general. But you are also anti this vax, arent you?
Or am I wrong, and your kids will be getting this vax? Do tell.

PuzzledObserver · 01/12/2020 16:20

We can all calm down a bit - at least if you believe Michael Gove (who, whatever you may think of him, is closer to the throne than Nadhim Zahawi and appears to be BoJo's leaker-in-chief)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55143484

The plan is not (currently) to offer vaccination passports, because at the very least, it is not yet proven that having been vaccinated prevents you from carrying the virus asymptomatically and passing it on.

If that WAS eventually to be proven..... well, private enterprise will do what it likes. If foreign countries choose to make vaccination mandatory to enter, that's their right - whereas foreign travel is NOT a human right, except in the case of escaping persecution. There are already some forms of employment in which some vaccines are mandatory, such as Hep B for NHS staff.

The government, however, has a duty to ensure all its citizens have access to all the things they need for a decent basic standard of living. It's a shame they don't do a better job of fulfilling that... but, that aside, it's my view that if supermarkets for example tried to demand vaccination passports before entry, the government would prevent them from doing it in a blanket way.

What they could do is have certain time slots which were only for vaccinated people, limiting the hours during which unvaccinated people could shop and requiring e.g mask wearing during those times, whereas the rest of the time masks would no longer be required.

Would that be acceptable, OP? You still have access to what you need, albeit with some limitations. Whereas those who have chosen to be vaccinated have more choice.

Please remember that 94% effective is not 100% effective. Some people who have had the vaccine will still go on to catch Covid, so IMO it is reasonable for them to be able to choose to limit their exposure to unvaccinated people, who are much more likely to be carrying it than unvaccinated ones.

BigCityLife · 01/12/2020 16:26

How do you prove you have had the vaccine though? Do you have to carry a covid-free passport with you where ever you go?

I still don't know anyone that's had Covid yet either.

Pumpertrumper · 01/12/2020 16:28

I really worry about this!

I am NOT an anti Vaxer and will happily have the vaccine but not whilst I’m pregnant (11+4 currently). There’s just no proven safety. No research. No results.

Soon as babies out stab me with whatever but I’d like to be able to live normally until then

Badbackbernie · 01/12/2020 16:40

I do t know why posters have to get so nasty.

My kids have all there injections.
Will I give them this vaccine? No.

Am I an anti vaxxer ? No.

I doubt vaccine passport will ever come to fruition tbh and neither should it.

FTMF30 · 01/12/2020 16:42

@BigCityLife

How do you prove you have had the vaccine though? Do you have to carry a covid-free passport with you where ever you go?

I still don't know anyone that's had Covid yet either.

People are probably going to pile on shouting "conspiracist" but this is a part of the problem and what people are wary about.

The CV vaccine is very much being used as a trojan horse in a bid to move towards digital tracking. It won't stop at us just needing a vaccine passport, we are moving rapidly towards excessive control and coercion by digital tracking. It is pretty scary. This isn't just about wanting the vaccine or not. Its about the very gradual, almost insidious loss of civil liberty.

ilovesooty · 01/12/2020 16:47

@Sertchgi123

The selfishness of some is staggering. It’s this that has bothered me the most during this pandemic. I just didn’t realise.
Yes that's been the most depressing aspect for me too.
PinkFondantFancy · 01/12/2020 16:48

@FTMF30 yep totally agree. As you say, people will jump on asking you for your foil hat but I'm afraid I agree with you. You bring it in with the vaccine as the reason for it being necessary. Once you've got that far it's easy to extend it. By the time people realise it's gone too far, it'll be way too late to do anything about it.

SmileyClare · 01/12/2020 16:52

How to prove you've had a vaccine?

The same way you prove you've had vaccines to travel to certain countries already. Medical certificates for yellow fever, meningitis and polio are the ones most commonly required and access to certain countries can be denied without them. I haven't seen anyone at the airport wailing about a loss of their civil liberties.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 01/12/2020 16:54

A V tattooed on your forehead.

gottakeeponmovin · 01/12/2020 16:56

I don't see the issue - you have to vaccinate to go on holiday to certain places. Your choice

ConcernedAuntie · 01/12/2020 16:59

The CV vaccine is very much being used as a trojan horse in a bid to move towards digital tracking.

If you have a mobile phone/use the internet any government agency who wanted to track you can do so already.

LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb · 01/12/2020 17:44

The CV vaccine is very much being used as a trojan horse in a bid to move towards digital tracking

How is that, exactly? You're already digitally tracked anyway

Roussette · 01/12/2020 17:45

The thing is... covid anti vaxxers will probably be happy to visit Granny because she has had the vaccine so think there's no danger to dear old Granny. She stepped up, took the plunge and had the vaccine, which enables you to see her.

What about those who cannot have the vaccine... are you happy to mix with them?

user1481840227 · 01/12/2020 17:59

@Roussette

The thing is... covid anti vaxxers will probably be happy to visit Granny because she has had the vaccine so think there's no danger to dear old Granny. She stepped up, took the plunge and had the vaccine, which enables you to see her.

What about those who cannot have the vaccine... are you happy to mix with them?

I'm sure I read recently that the data from the vaccine trials don't appear to say anything yet about whether a vaccinated person can still transmit the virus, they only show that they lessen or prevent the illness in the vaccinated person.

Another worry that I have about the vaccines and taking a rushed vaccine is let's say for example that everyone in the UK gets the pfizer vaccine....let's say after a year it appears that perhaps countries who get a vaccine from a different manufacturer made a better choice! What happens then?

Could there be calls for everyone to get the vaccine from a different manufacturer?
Could there be potential for that to cause harm to a persons body or immune system if they are mixing different technologies for vaccines for the same virus?
Could it lead to some kind of virus mutations?

Roussette · 01/12/2020 18:03

No. What I'm saying is... you go and see Granny because, although you haven't had the vaccine, you feel safe going to see her and she's desperate to see you, but you think you're OK seeing her as she has been vaccinated.
That doesn't apply to those who can't get the vaccine because of auto immune problems. So it suits an anti vaxxer and Granny but not others.

It's all about thinking of other people, not just your family, when you could get a vaccine, you just don't want to.

Belladonna12 · 01/12/2020 18:07

[quote bumbleymummy]@Belladonna12 Eh? I’m not worried about the vaccine. I’m sure it will be fine for most people. I just don’t agree with compulsory/coerced vaccination for a virus that causes mild/asymptomatic illness in the vast majority of people. People should be allowed to choose whether or not they want it.[/quote]
I think you are deluded if you think the vast majority of people will only experience mild/asymptomatic symptoms. I know quite a few people who have had it and most adults really don't want to get it again suggesting it was quite a nasty experience even if officially mild. One of my friends now has long Covid even though she had mild symptoms at the time.
Regardless, why is the number of people who experience mild illness relevant to whether there should be a choice? If it was a severe illness for most people would you be happy for it to be compulsory?

user1481840227 · 01/12/2020 18:07

It's too simplistic to say that people could get one, they just don't want to.

I'm sure there are a few who think like that because we've seen that there are people who could wear a mask but they kick up a massive fuss.
But for many of us it's not that we simply don't want to get the vaccine. We have concerns about whether it is safe or not. We are allowed to be concerned about our own health. There are other dangers in the world apart from just covid...and we've all had our experiences to draw on also.

For example I don't know a single person who died from or got seriously ill from covid. I do know a woman who got the swine flu jab and ended up with narcolepsy though and her life is ruined.

We are allowed to question things that we believe have the potential to damage us.

Roussette · 01/12/2020 18:11

But for many of us it's not that we simply don't want to get the vaccine. We have concerns about whether it is safe or not. We are allowed to be concerned about our own health

Of course you are allowed to be concerned about your own health. But it is not wanting to. Not sure how else it could be put.

Fine, don't have it, but don't expect to be able to go where you want when you want for that decision

Onesunnydayiniceland · 01/12/2020 18:13

For those saying that the wouldn’t vaccinate their children this is irrelevant at this point as the vaccines will not be authorised for children in the first instance. The studies so far are in adults. The authorisation for children will be later, once studies are conducted in the relevant age groups.

MyPersona · 01/12/2020 18:13

The CV vaccine is very much being used as a trojan horse in a bid to move towards digital tracking. It won't stop at us just needing a vaccine passport, we are moving rapidly towards excessive control and coercion by digital tracking. It is pretty scary. This isn't just about wanting the vaccine or not. Its about the very gradual, almost insidious loss of civil liberty.

I’m more worried about the rapid and not at all insidious loss of sense and reason.

user1481840227 · 01/12/2020 18:18

I think you are deluded if you think the vast majority of people will only experience mild/asymptomatic symptoms. I know quite a few people who have had it and most adults really don't want to get it again suggesting it was quite a nasty experience even if officially mild. One of my friends now has long Covid even though she had mild symptoms at the time.

I said in my last post I don't know anyone who died or got seriously ill from covid..but I also don't know anyone personally who even tested positive for it! I know quite a few who got tested and were negative. That must mean that either I don't know any adults at all who had it.......or that the ones I did know that had it didn't know themselves and were asymptomatic.

I got the flu in early 2019. I would say I suffered from 'long flu' after that! I had the worst string of illness, stress and insomnia lasting nearly a year afterwards convincing me that my immune system was completely messed up! It became a vicious cycle where I didn't really know what was causing what...was it the stress causing the continuing symptoms..was it the insomnia meaning I couldn't fight it off..was the insomnia causing the stress...was it the stress that weakened my immune system in the first place meaning the flu seemed to affect me so badly......it's the same kind of thing this year...I do not doubt that long covid is a thing for some..but some researchers are saying for others long covid is psychological!! As I said I thought the flu completely ruined my health last year and I was never sick before that...i'm a fit healthy young woman in my 30s!! so for people this year who caught covid who have been listening to all the media stuff all year about the long term effects of this then of course some of them will suffer psychologically and possibly develop severe health anxiety!

bumbleymummy · 01/12/2020 18:20

@Belladonna12 I think you are deluded if you think the vast majority of people will only experience mild/asymptomatic symptoms.

This isn’t something I think It’s based on studies showing that a large proportion of cases are asymptomatic (over 80% in some studies) or mild and studies that show an IFR of well below 0.01% for the majority. Yes, some people can get very ill but they really are the minority of cases.

user1481840227 · 01/12/2020 18:21

@Roussette

But for many of us it's not that we simply don't want to get the vaccine. We have concerns about whether it is safe or not. We are allowed to be concerned about our own health

Of course you are allowed to be concerned about your own health. But it is not wanting to. Not sure how else it could be put.

Fine, don't have it, but don't expect to be able to go where you want when you want for that decision

It's not not wanting to. We haven't even been offered it yet and haven't refused.

Many people on this board are simply asking questions and criticising the plans to make it mandatory or 'kind of' mandatory or whatever way it's going to be.

Many of those people probably will get it anyway. We're just simply discussing the issue.