So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

There was also stuff about swine flu and about how for some who fought that off naturally it actually boosted their immune system in an incredible way offering protection against other strains of flu too!

That sounds, at best, unlikely. Can you cite a reputable source for this?

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

I haven't said that this vaccine is 'bad' anywhere. Perhaps you should read people's post before you throw accusations around? It just makes you seem a bit silly. I've already said that I have no problem with the vaccine and have said several times that it makes sense to prioritise the vulnerable. I just don't agree with compulsory/coerced vaccination, like many others on this thread, and that doesn't make people 'anti-vaxx'. HTH

That sounds, at best, unlikely. Can you cite a reputable source for this?

It was published in the January 10th 2011 journal of experimental medicine.
My college doesn't offer access to it though!

The NHS talk about it here though www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/immune-response-to-swine-flu-extraordinary/

how am I an anti vaxxer if I think some people should be vaccinated?

The fact is anti vaxxers rely on others getting the vaccine. They want that luxury and want to enjoy all the freedoms available when a vaccination programme successfully controls the virus. It's an I'm alright Jack attitude.

Are you trying to persuade all your elderly relatives to refuse the vaccine too? No hang on, how would you visit them without potentially infecting them.

User..lots of numbers ok fair point about natural immunity. Obviously hoping for natural immunity after contracting a virus isn't the answer with covid. That was what I was replying to. It would be a horrific survival of the fittest scenario.

@JinglingHellsBells

Many scientists would say that natural immunity is superior!

Yeah, sure.

Who are these scientists? Links please?

Why would natural immunity be any better? it's not logical if the vaccine is live- your body reacts in the same way.

I think you are spouting non science.

I won't be going to the effort of finding links as I was simply responding to a poster who said this was basic stuff...and to educate yourself on it. You can find the information yourself. I won't be naming the Scientists either as I do not know their names lol but I wouldn't know the names of the scientists who say that vaccine immunity is any better either!! and most people here don't know them either...they just call them "SCIENTISTS"

It's not non science...and you should surely know that within science there are conflicting theories or opinions for pretty much everything so to assume that those scientists do not exist is strange!!!

@Roussette I imagine it will be still circulating in the general population so we'll be getting natural 'boosters' in much the same way as we do for other things.

@Pinkroses87 The solution is to not ask for proof of vaccination when it doesn't actually mean anything. If they want to restrict travel etc to prevent spread then they should be asking for proof of immunity. (I've said this several times now)

@JinglingHellsBells

*There are people who will most certainly DIE if they catch Covid .

The vaccine may save their lives.*

I'm not sure why you directed this at me. I completely agree that more vulnerable people should offered the vaccine first. Although I completely respect their right to refuse it too. I don't think anyone should be forced/coerced.

I've heard too natural immunity is better, lasts longer. Some study done with mothers who pass immunity to their children

However, we don't get to pick and choose whether we are the ones who will go on to develop a good immunity rather than buckle under the ill effects of this disease. The most anyone can do is make an uneducated guess...

I don't think vaccines should be compulsory. I don't think anyone should be penalised for not taking a vaccine. I'm not against a vaccine, though. Just think healthcare decisions on take up should be made by the patient. Consent is a big issue.

@bumbleymummy but what form does this “proof of immunity” take? Please! We’d all be delighted if there were any scientific way of doing this. Share your secrets!

A good explanation here of why vaccine immunity can be stronger than natural immunity
www.independent.co.uk/health_and_wellbeing/coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-infection-covid-b575224.html

[quote EarlGreywithLemon]A good explanation here of why vaccine immunity can be stronger than natural immunity
www.independent.co.uk/health_and_wellbeing/coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-infection-covid-b575224.html[/quote]
but saying that they may provide stronger immunity also means that they may not.

All along with this virus to get us to go along with all the lockdowns and so on we were told "this is a brand new virus...this is a novel virus...forget what we know about other viruses because this is brand new and we don't know how it will act"

now granted that was at the start when in the Western world we were only getting used to it and they didn't really know much and in some cases they were using ventilators causing more harm than good but we're not at the point yet where anyone can say for sure what way this is going to work with re-infections and natural immunity or vaccines.

I tend to agree with OP. She's not anti-vax or even hinted she will refuse the vaccination, she's simply questioning whether they will be compulsory in the near future and she has every right to do so.

On the same public health and saving lives vein why aren't people arguing to make the flu vaccine compulsory (and free) for adults under 50? In all likelihood there will be some prioritisation in practice (health workers and elderly and vulnerable), meaning many of the hysterical lot will have to wait patiently before it's their turn to get vaccinated.

I probably will have it, but I thought only certain people are going to be a priority to start with.

I am rather sick of hearing certain people talk about how the vaccine was dreamed up by Bill Gates to make everyone infertile. 🙄

Isn't there a thread on here with people talking about their experiences of having the trials?

I imagine it'll still be circulating in the general population so we'll be getting "natural boosters"

Eh? You want to keep on getting reinfected with covid just so you have antibodies? Then you want medical testing for said antibodies so you can go on holiday? Do you know how complicated and drawn out antibody testing is? What the fuck is this nonsense.

I can't continue with this thread, my eyes are rolling too much

@pinkrose87 I think you're missing the point. If a piece of paper with vaccine status doesn't mean anything (because we don't know if the person is immune or how long it lasts) then why ask for it? Would you be happy to accept proof of a positive covid test in the last 6 months? If not, why not? At the moment, we know more about immunity from natural infection than we do about vaccine induced immunity.

@Cashewrut isn't that because the problem with Covid is that nobody has any immunity and it's very infectious? Flu isn't the same - not everyone catches if.

@SmileyClare

I imagine it'll still be circulating in the general population so we'll be getting "natural boosters"

Eh? You want to keep on getting reinfected with covid just so you have antibodies? Then you want medical testing for said antibodies so you can go on holiday? Do you know how complicated and drawn out antibody testing is? What the fuck is this nonsense.

I can't continue with this thread, my eyes are rolling too much

This is something that happens with chickenpox and shingles.

Most of us who had the chicken pox are immune...but that immunity is apparently boosted and topped up by being exposed to chicken pox though the years...and this helps to prevent shingles...

so isn't that one of the reason why they believe shingles is already on the rise or will rise in future? due to kids getting vaccinated against chicken pox in the first place.

Of course that is chicken pox and not covid....and probably doesn't apply to covid at all...but people are comparing all sorts of vaccines for all sorts of things to the covid vaccine when really we can't compare at all just yet because this is the first vaccine for a coronavirus!

The fact is anti vaxxers rely on others getting the vaccine. They want that luxury and want to enjoy all the freedoms available when a vaccination programme successfully controls the virus. It's an I'm alright Jack attitude.

That's not actually true. Most truly anti vaccinators thing 1. Vaccines don't work or 2. They are actually designed to damage people. Usually both.

Think not thing

[quote SugarbabyMilly]@Cashewrut isn't that because the problem with Covid is that nobody has any immunity and it's very infectious? Flu isn't the same - not everyone catches if.[/quote]
Not everyone catches covid either!
I'm sure I read that in 50% of cases it wasn't passed on in someones household, similar for SARS.

User the difference being that the antibodies produced by the cv vaccine are broken down in the body over time, it would need boosting I think yearly as the flu vaccine does.. like flu it can mutate so each year the most likely strain is vaccinated against.. Unlike some other vaccines e.g. chicken pox.

@SugarbabyMilly

The fact is anti vaxxers rely on others getting the vaccine. They want that luxury and want to enjoy all the freedoms available when a vaccination programme successfully controls the virus. It's an I'm alright Jack attitude.

That's not actually true. Most truly anti vaccinators thing 1. Vaccines don't work or 2. They are actually designed to damage people. Usually both.

Dr Sears well known spreader of fearmongering and false information about vaccines, tells his non vaccinating patients

I also warn them not to share their fears with their neighbors, because if too many people avoid the MMR, we'll likely see the diseases increase significantly

There was also stuff about swine flu and about how for some who fought that off naturally it actually boosted their immune system in an incredible way offering protection against other strains of flu too!

It's well known that immune responses to flu can protect against other strains of flu. Its because influenza mutates by a process of antigenic drift and antigenic shift. Antigenic drift is the minor mutations that happen every year (e.g. virus stays as H1N1 with minor mutations) whereas antigenic shift is the more drastic mutations (e.g. H2N2 became H3N2 in 1968).

Depending on the mutations you can have cross immunity to other strains. For example, in the swine flu pandemic 33% of people over 65 had antibodies from a previous strain of flu they had encountered many years previously.

However, depending on the type of flu vaccine used you can also get cross strain immunity (cross protection is basically down to what antigens your T and B cells are primed to recoginse after the flu/vaccine. If the antigens are the same in different strains then you will still be protected).

how am I an anti vaxxer if I think some people should be vaccinated?

Do you think YOU should be vaccinated? Will your children be getting vaccinated?
If the answer to both is no, you are an anti-vaxxer

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

"Do you think YOU should be vaccinated? Will your children be getting vaccinated?
If the answer to both is no, you are an anti-vaxxer"

False. Unless you are talking about all vaccines rather than just this particular vaccine. Not wanting to have one particular vaccine does not make someone antivaxx in general. HTH

@SmileyClare

how am I an anti vaxxer if I think some people should be vaccinated?

The fact is anti vaxxers rely on others getting the vaccine. They want that luxury and want to enjoy all the freedoms available when a vaccination programme successfully controls the virus. It's an I'm alright Jack attitude.

Are you trying to persuade all your elderly relatives to refuse the vaccine too? No hang on, how would you visit them without potentially infecting them.

User..lots of numbers ok fair point about natural immunity. Obviously hoping for natural immunity after contracting a virus isn't the answer with covid. That was what I was replying to. It would be a horrific survival of the fittest scenario.

I think this is the major issue with anyonr who wants to refuse the vaccine, the fact they even can but dont want the rest of us too , is what gets me so angry about it.