So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

@bumbleymummy I don’t really understand why you’re so focused on natural immunity in people who’ve had it - even Dominic Cummings sacked relying on that months ago

She's a hardcore anti-vaxxer, that's why. Been here years, surfaces on every single vax thread of any kind.

pinkroses - see above comment re Oxford study.

We don’t know how long immunity from the vaccine lasts and it isn’t 100% effective so demanding that someone shows proof of vaccination makes no sense if you’re refusing access to people who are immune through being infected. If the point is to reduce the likelihood of spreading it in bars/public transport then it should be proof of immunity (however that is acquired) rather than proof of having had a vaccine.

And how should people prove their immunity if they've had covid? It's impossible.
A vaccine is easy to prove

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

😂 Yet another person who doesn’t know what an anti-vaxxer is.

@Roussette Easy to prove but it doesn’t really mean anything if you don’t know if that person is actually immune. It’s just a box ticking exercise. You may as well accept anyone who has proof of a positive covid test in the last X months.

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb ah, I see!
@bumbleymummy if you can come up with a reliable and viable way of creating a passport that proves the immunity of millions of individuals over a decent period of time (especially given that this immunity appears to vary substantially from individual to individual, and especially seeing as we don’t seem to even be able to work out how many people have even had this bloody thing) within the next few weeks, then fill your boots. We’re all ears! In the meantime, we’re probably going to have to rely on a documentable vaccine guaranteeing immunity over a decent period of time.

PinkRoses yes totally agree

😂 Yet another person who doesn’t know what an anti-vaxxer is.

We all do. And if anyone is unsure, they can just look at you.

If natural immunity only lasts for a few months then why are people so sure that a vaccine would last for longer?

I just don't understand people who'd rather catch covid (proven side effects, some debilitating long term effects, including death) than have a tried and tested vaccine (no proven side effects).

The Oxford vaccine is a live vaccine. Put simply, a tiny amount of the microbe is administered to produce a natural immune response. Yet people are still bleating that they'd rather catch the full blown virus, risk nasty illness, giving it to others, post viral illness..the list goes on.

I really think some of the fear stems from ignorance and letting social media scaremongering whip you into a frenzy about a dystopian future as if you're in an episode of Black Mirror.

@user1481840227 we’re not! We’re waiting for science to ascertain that. It may be that we need annual jabs like flu. If that’s the case, that’s what we’ll have to do.

@Pinkroses87 we don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts yet, we know it’s not 100% effective. Why is that any more reliable? A piece of paper saying you’ve had a vaccine certainly isn’t a guarantee of immunity.

@bumbleymummy I take your point. But what is your solution?

@nosswith

I don't expect compulsion, I expect that some things will be difficult or impossible to do without one, perhaps flying.

I hope it will be expected for any form of international travel.

@bumbleymummy I take your point. But what is your solution?

Her solution is no-one takes the vaccine

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

I’m afraid I’d be a very poor example. You see, typically, an ‘anti-vaxxer’ wouldn’t support the idea of vaccinating people. (The clue is kind of in the name )

A vaccine is more effective than natural immunity. This is basic stuff. Honestly if people want "more information" before they decide then why not spend some time looking up some information on vaccines and immunity? (From reputable sources)

It's just lazy to call everyone who expresses any kind of reluctance about the vaccine or who wants to question certain things or who doesn't agree with mandatory vaccines..an anti-vaxxer.

It's like people think they can just throw that out to shut the other person up! Completely lazy debating!!

I'm Irish and that happens in our Dáil (parliament) all the time. Whenever Sinn Fein in opposition try to challenge the government on anything all...not funding enough for homeless people, the cervical cancer scandal....the government respond with crap about the IRA and balaclavas....just to shut them up because they don't want to debate or can't have a reasonable one!

Funny how you're always on the no side on any vaccine thread then isn't it?
That's always been your schtick though, "I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I'm just saying that this particular vaccine is bad because X"...for all vaccines.
And if I recall correctly, a pro-lifer too.

It's just lazy to call everyone who expresses any kind of reluctance about the vaccine or who wants to question certain things or who doesn't agree with mandatory vaccines..an anti-vaxxer

who''s doing any such thing?

The only people being called anti-vaxxers are actually ant-vaxxers

@user1481840227

If natural immunity only lasts for a few months then why are people so sure that a vaccine would last for longer?

They don't know that. It's possible it last longer. There is no evidence immunity only lasts months.

The flu vaccine is changed each year. This might be the same with the Covid vaccine- tweaked if it mutates.

The flu vaccine is only between 35-65% effective most years, but it saves a lot of lives and long term complications for many vulnerable people. The same will apply to CV while some people will in time (perhaps) build up immunity themselves.

The vaccine is to give a breathing space (literally) to enable lives to go back to some normality while saving the most at risk in the population. No ones believes it's a one-off perfect solution but it's brilliant work by the scientists when vaccines normally take 10 years.

They will be learning more and refining it as time goes on.

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb she doesn’t seem particularly forthcoming with a solution to the issue either? Yes, it’d be delightful if there were a way of establishing who has natural immunity. Hell, if we could identify those people, it would speed up the vaccination process enormously. But, err, we can’t.

@SmileyClare

A vaccine is more effective than natural immunity. This is basic stuff. Honestly if people want "more information" before they decide then why not spend some time looking up some information on vaccines and immunity? (From reputable sources)

It's not basic stuff at all. I have looked this up many times...including in journal articles in my college library. Many scientists would say that natural immunity is superior! There was also stuff about swine flu and about how for some who fought that off naturally it actually boosted their immune system in an incredible way offering protection against other strains of flu too!

[quote bumbleymummy]@Pinkroses87 we don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts yet, we know it’s not 100% effective. Why is that any more reliable? A piece of paper saying you’ve had a vaccine certainly isn’t a guarantee of immunity.[/quote]
There are people who will most certainly DIE if they catch Covid .

The vaccine may save their lives.

And if it gives people time to live a normal life, and gradually reduce the R rate worldwide and certainly in Europe.

The flu vaccine is between 35-66% effective - a few years back the batch was 35% effective. Yet thousands of people are alive today who otherwise would have died from flu if even with that low success rate.

Many scientists would say that natural immunity is superior!

Yeah, sure.

Who are these scientists? Links please?

Why would natural immunity be any better? it's not logical if the vaccine is live- your body reacts in the same way.

I think you are spouting non science.