So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

I am happy for the vaccine to be effectively compulsory.

"Covid is not the same as flu."

No it's not. Flu has killed millions upon millions more people.

I think this is entirely different to carrying a bottle of water on to a flight.
A lot of people may be scared of getting the vaccine as it has not been tested for long enough ( In somes peoples opinions)

I am not an anti vaccination but I am a bit aprehensive about getting it too.
By the telling the OP to grow up is a bit rude of you.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us

I tend to agree with those who think this suggestion is very very sinister. To effectively bar someone from society if they don't have a vaccine is coercion and a serious violation of the basic human right to bodily autonomy. No-one can be forced (and excluding them from shops and restaurants is effectively forcing them) to undergo a medical procedure against their will.

I would think this about any vaccine, and no, I'm not a tin-foil hat anti-vaxxer; my children are fully vaccinated. But it goes double for a new vaccine against a disease that poses no significant threat to most of the population, and which is based on technology that is new and has no associated data on long-term effects. That's without considering the practical considerations that vaccine-mediated immunity is likely to be short lived (if indeed 'natural' immunity is), most of the population aren't currently going to be offered the vaccine anyway (no children will be as it has not been tested in children), and as things stand vaccination is not known to prevent you passing on infection. It strikes me as a poorly-considered knee-jerk comment based on the assumption that a vaccine can never do harm and will eliminate disease, neither of which are true, and it is frankly outrageous.

Exactly!

I’m a low priority for the vaccine, so would I be refused access to said areas until I’m allowed a vaccination? Seems a bit unfair as it’s out of my control

Good. It prevents the stupid selfish antivax people putting everyone else at risk. I hope they bring in the same scheme for all vaccinations, especially MMR.

@Roussette very much appreciate you and your daughter volunteering for trials. Thank you.

I'm involved in a vaccine trial myself and know how safe it is. Ours (novavax) uses exactly the same technology as some very well established vaccines, HPV and hepatitis to name but two, and it is just a fact that any side effects are very short term, don't crop up years later.

Meanwhile, it appears almost certain that SOME people who get covid will in fact have long term issues, possibly even permanent. These could put an even greater strain on the NHS in the future. We just don't know.

Also we won't protect the vulnerable just by vaccinating the vulnerable. No vaccine will be 100% effective, AZ might be as low as 62%. The vulnerable are counting on everyone else to be vaccinated. My own Dad is CEV - he will be getting the vaccine as soon as he can but will be extremely nervous about going back to normal life if he thinks that huge swathes of the population are refusing to have it.

There is a lot to be said for dispassionate discussions. So many people on this thread are getting highly emotive and accusations are flying.

I am so bloody fed up with lockdown that I'm pinning my hopes on the vaccine. But I can't close my eyes to the very serious risks involved. If any of these vaccines is unsafe, the NHS will collapse, to use a handy euphemism for wide-spread disease.

@sofiaaaaaa

I’m a low priority for the vaccine, so would I be refused access to said areas until I’m allowed a vaccination? Seems a bit unfair as it’s out of my control

I would not imagine that this is practical until everyone has been given the chance of having it. Like you I expect to be in the bottom of the queue.

d yes, if i was was vulnerable I would get tue vaccine, im not so I won't be getting it

This sums it up "I only care about myself, not anyone else. I have no sense of civic responsibility, I'm a complete dick".
Too many of that type around.

@Frazzled2207

“ The vulnerable are counting on everyone else to be vaccinated.”

They’re counting on a level of immunity being reached in the population that will reduce spread. That immunity will come from a combination of people being immune from infection and people being vaccinated. The millions of people in the U.K. who have had cv have already put us on the path towards reaching herd immunity.

We have become such short-termists.

We should challenge this idea based on what it means for the future because, if realised, it sets a precedent. This vaccine may be safe and effective, it may be the answer to this pandemic. But who is to say about future vaccinations?

Informally coercing populations to vaccinate with a new type of vaccine (mRNA) is a serious issue that should not be so reflexively dismissed.

@bumbleymummy
that could literally take years.

As for 'millions' of people in the UK. Just over a million and a half people in the UK have had a confirmed case of covid. Granted there will be some that happened but didn't get confirmed but say it was 2 million. That's only 3% of the population in 9 months. And even they are unlikely to have long term immunity so could well be cancelled out by next year .

It is pretty black and white - as many people as possible get vaccinated, or we live with restrictions and economic meltdown indefinitely, probably for years. Take your pick.

@Frequentflier
Thank you, I appreciate that.

Meanwhile, it appears almost certain that SOME people who get covid will in fact have long term issues, possibly even permanent. These could put an even greater strain on the NHS in the future. We just don't know

^ This.
Someone I know, tested positive back in April. She is a fit hill walker, and now has to rest so much, now unable to walk far, and her hearing is impacted. Yet another symptom that no one talks about. I cannot listen to anyone spouting off that it only affects a small percentage.
That's fine isn't it? Until it's YOU

Just have the bloody vaccine please. I am having it primarily for ME but also to protect others. I will then be able to go where I want when I want and not worry that I might be asymptomatic and passing it on to someone who - for medical reasons - cannot get vaccinated. Are these people supposed to lockdown forever?

My best friend is vulnerable so I haven't seen her for 10 months and we've been friends for 33 years! She still has an actual choice shield or die.

Her choice isn't shield or die.
Her choice is to shied or to risk catching it and dying.

Many vulnerable people have caught this and survived!

The millions of people in the U.K. who have had cv have already put us on the path towards reaching herd immunity

Nope. Herd immunity needs a lot better than 3-6 months immunity.

My nephew in the US- healthy 20 yr old, a champion runner- has been ill for months with what looks like long Covid. He has brain fog and is constantly tired. I think there is much we do not know about Covid.

Nope. Herd immunity needs a lot better than 3-6 months immunity.

They don't know how long the immunity from the vaccine lasts!

@Frazzled2207 some studies have shown over 80% of cases are asymptomatic. We weren’t testing the general population back at the start - only the people who ended up in hospital - so there are a large number of symptomatic cases that weren’t counted for months without even taking the asymptomatic cases into account.

Recent studies have also shown that immunity from infection lasts for over 6 months. We don’t know how long immunity from vaccination will last yet. It’s going to take a while to vaccinate the more vulnerable groups before it even gets offered to the rest of the population so if the first people to be offered the vaccine don’t get immunity from it, they’re going to have to wait a while anyway - and that had nothing to do with vaccine refusal, just logistics. While the vaccine is being rolled out to the more vulnerable groups, the rest of us will still be susceptible to infection and adding to the immune proportion of the population.

Estimates for the herd immunity threshold are around 50-67% but some studies have put it lower.

@bumbleymummy I don’t really understand why you’re so focused on natural immunity in people who’ve had it - even Dominic Cummings sacked relying on that months ago. We don’t know how long that form of immunity lasts, and in lots of people, it doesn’t show up in tests. It cannot be relied upon. Plus for a lot of people, it’s not a mild illness. It’s a virus that appears to generate sizeable and complex side effects in many. Sure, you make the personal decision to not have it, but don’t assume you will have the ability to do whatever you want in relation to private individuals and businesses if you do.

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb 6months + according to the recent Oxford study. And yes, as the pp pointed out, they don’t know how long protection from the vaccine lasts.

6months + according to the recent Oxford study

According to A study. Just one. Others have different results.

@Pinkroses87
spot on.

But you can be vaccinated again. You won't be going out to get Covid again will you... just to have antibodies.
It will be a yearly thing to be vaccinated against it.

I. Cannot. Wait.