So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

Yep, I feel sorry for the people who can’t be immunised for medical reasons.

Not the people who’ll have to choose between getting immunised or holidaying in the UK.

Surly it’s the same as smoking inside public places?

Bar staff and the like have the right to work there sadly without having to inhale smoke from others, same as they have the right to work there sadly as possibly with regards to COVID.

Safely!

I work in a shop and it absolutely won't be required to go food shopping.

But considering the amount of people myself and my colleagues regularly come into contact with, I'd be a lot more confident if people had the vaccine.

When masks and social distancing are no longer required it's going to be scary for key workers. We are relying on people being responsible and not selfish.

We are never going to refuse access, but would like to work in safety. But anti Covid vaxxers don't care about anyone but themselves, so it's pointless worrying.

This is going of people who actually catch it. Most people don’t even know they have it. Your trying to force a covid passport for a virus most people don’t even know they have

Oh you're one of THOSE. Should have guessed. The 1.5 million dead dont matter because you and yours only likely to get a mild or asymptomatic version.

Anyone that needs the vaccine - they should have it. Anyone that doesn’t shouldn’t be coerced in to having it

We all need to get the vaccine. That's how vaccines work, for things like this. We didnt eradicate smallpox by shouting about our civil liberties, ffs.

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

The studies, to date, show that immunity from natural infection lasts for over 6 months. We don’t know how long immunity from the vaccine will last yet.

^
Be helpful if people understood some basics before arguing about it.^

Yeah, it would.

Mandatory is something that must be done or demanded by law.
This does not meet that definition. You don't have to travel somewhere or go to a specific organisation etc. Some bars/restaurants don't allow you in if you're wearing trainers. Does that impede your free will?

Frankly, I think it's good if organisations and countries etc discriminate against people who choose not to be protected against the virus. Vulnerable people should be protected. Not to mention if there was a contagious outbreak somewhere in the world I'd want measures put in place so people from there couldn't so easily travel here without some checks.

Oh I see the Klaxon went off...it's MN's resident anti-vaxxer, bumbleymummy.

I'm not remotely worried about this being made compulsory.

This government couldn't organize a certification system if it bit them on the nose. It's taken til Dec to sort out even most of the flu vaccines, despite it being really important this year that they were delivered on time.

I think the chances of the government honestly rolling out 50odd million vaccines (I left out the children), is nil. Nada.

You don't have to download the app to function in society, I've been going out and about, mask on, as I don't think the way it holds data is safe and I thought it would wrongly alarm- I was right, it was a shit-show and millions undownloaded it and many couldn't use it anyway as they have old style phones.

I am pretty sure when businesses do open up that they will want the maximum customers anyway, and will just find ways to allow people in even if they politely request you have a vaccination certificate.

If there turned out to be a side-effect that was problematic for one of the vaccines, then people with that passport could find it harder to get insurance. I wouldn't be so sure that recording your vaccination status is a passport to freedom.

Plus you can always get a dodgy copy off the internet, it's not going to have the same level of security as a real passport!

I will only be stressed when it actually happens, I may have the vaccine, I may not, I haven't decided yet, and given the government's incompetence in delivering PPE which actually was letting people die within weeks, I think the chances of them getting it together to deliver a robust functioning certification system is NIL!

@MiddlesexGirl

“ being required to have the vaccination to protect shop workers, hospitality workers, travel industry”

People who can all choose to be vaccinated themselves if they’re worried?

When masks and social distancing are no longer required it's going to be scary for key workers. We are relying on people being responsible and not selfish.

Kind of like what is going on every day in any classroom?

“ COVID is not like Chicken Pox which is low risk so therefore not vaccinated against. This awful infection kills people”
Its a manditory vaccine to work with children in some states of US

The last time they made it compulsory there was an enormous backlash of refusers. The government saw sense and uptake went up as the vaccine became voluntary.

They are only mooting this idea of compulsory vaccines now because there are so many likely refusers. Nobody has stopped to ask why.

Here's my theory: the government has acted so weirdly and illogically on so many things since the beginning of the year that the trust had been undermined. That is really what is fueling conspiracy theorists. That and the basic fact that these new vaccines have been sped through trials. I bet my last dollar that the Queen won't be receiving it!

Isn't this just like computers/internet. Some people simply refuse to use it and are therefore excluded from some opportunities/services. It's their choice and their hard luck if they miss out.

I wonder what would have happened if the government had severely restricted the availability of the vaccine, so that most members of the public could never have it?

I bet that some of the current refuseniks would instead be standing on chairs, demanding the vaccine NOW!

You should spend some time going through the WHO website.

For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation

This is going of people who actually catch it. Most people don’t even know they have it. Your trying to force a covid passport for a virus most people don’t even know they have.

So fag packet numbers then. UK only.

Say 70% catch it = 45.5m

Then 15% are severe (oxygen, hospital) = 6.8m

And 5% need ventilation = 2.3m

And 1% die = 455,000

Do those numbers look acceptable to you?

Bumble would you be happy if your child had leukaemia and no immunity to infection and was being treated on a ward by nurses who had refused a covid vaccination (because they weren't worried about catching it themselves)?

Could the entire government convince themselves enough to take the vaccine?

I had all my baby vaccines including TB. I had my cervical cancer jabs. I am not anti-vaccines, but I am against being forced to do something against my will. This isn’t the bubonic plague, TB or leprosy. We shouldn’t be banned from schools, work, nurseries, shops etc.

I am against being injected with a new type of vaccine (mRNA) that’s been rushed. We don’t know the long term effects of this vaccine. It’s only 90% effective and the % for survival is much higher for people who don’t have health issues (heart issues from steroids and anorexia, organ failure, cancer etc).

If the vulnerable want to be vaccinated and this vaccine will prevent them from becoming ill from the virus, then that’s good!

@Poppingnostopping

I'm not remotely worried about this being made compulsory.

This government couldn't organize a certification system if it bit them on the nose. It's taken til Dec to sort out even most of the flu vaccines, despite it being really important this year that they were delivered on time.

I think the chances of the government honestly rolling out 50odd million vaccines (I left out the children), is nil. Nada.

You don't have to download the app to function in society, I've been going out and about, mask on, as I don't think the way it holds data is safe and I thought it would wrongly alarm- I was right, it was a shit-show and millions undownloaded it and many couldn't use it anyway as they have old style phones.

I am pretty sure when businesses do open up that they will want the maximum customers anyway, and will just find ways to allow people in even if they politely request you have a vaccination certificate.

If there turned out to be a side-effect that was problematic for one of the vaccines, then people with that passport could find it harder to get insurance. I wouldn't be so sure that recording your vaccination status is a passport to freedom.

Plus you can always get a dodgy copy off the internet, it's not going to have the same level of security as a real passport!

I will only be stressed when it actually happens, I may have the vaccine, I may not, I haven't decided yet, and given the government's incompetence in delivering PPE which actually was letting people die within weeks, I think the chances of them getting it together to deliver a robust functioning certification system is NIL!

I know they only bought 40 million vaccines. ( last time I spoke to a friend that was involved in making it) so that’s 2 vaccines per person - so enough for only 20 million.

So I think for the majority it’s going to be a long way off yet.

Cop on. If your free choice impacts other people, then they/we are entitled to our free choice about how we interact with you. You can't expect to just make a free choice that endangers other people and for everyone else not to exercise their free choice about whether or not to represent the danger you now represent. That's how free choice works, it's not a one way street.

For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring entilation. Most people don’t even know they have it. Your trying to force a covid passport for a virus most people don’t even know they have.

Well... that's the whole point isn't it?
It's like Russian Roulette. You don't know how it's going to affect you. A close relative of mine... 32 yrs old, fit as a flea, slim, fantastic health regime... she got it in March. She is still suffering, it's debilitating for her.
So we don't know do we?

@SmileyClare

Bumble would you be happy if your child had leukaemia and no immunity to infection and was being treated on a ward by nurses who had refused a covid vaccination (because they weren't worried about catching it themselves)?

What an utterly ridiculous comment. Millions of people with little/no immunity are treated daily but health care workers who haven't been vaccinated against anything at the moment, never mind the patient in the next bed.

I get very ill when I get flu. Everytime I have seen a health profession I haven't asked them if their vaccines are up to date.

I know they only bought 40 million vaccines. ( last time I spoke to a friend that was involved in making it) so that’s 2 vaccines per person - so enough for only 20 million.

So I think for the majority it’s going to be a long way off yet.

That’s just the Pfizer vaccine. You need more sources.

Cattenberg yes yes yes!