So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

People travel for work this isn’t just about going to Spain on holiday for a week. As adults we should be able to choose what goes in to our bodies with out our civil liberties being taken

Do you whine about civil liberties when you need vaccinations to travel? Do you complain about being forced to wear a seat belt? Or any of the other things that you have to do to be part of society?

With rights come responsbilities. Don't be a dick.

I can take a seat belt off when I exit the car. I’m not having it inserted in to my body.

No need to start name calling because you don’t like my view.

There are already loads of things that people do that require them to hand over medical information, such as applying for insurance, participating in extreme sports or athletic events even going trampolining.

Insurance - optional and not all types require any medical details,
Extreme sports - participation optional
Athletic events - depends on the type of event
Trampoline - for fun, name, dob and payment.

What annoys me about anyone who doesnt want to vaccinate, is they dont but they of course need everyone else to, for them to be able to live without this disease, pure selfishness. I will vaccinate because i dont belive science is out there to cause harm. I believe it will put us back to a state of normality. And if places/businesses dont allow people in them of they havent vaccinated then i will support them because they clearly just dont want the disease to spread and affect their business and staff which is completely understandable. If u dont like that then dont go to the businesses

No need to start name calling because you don’t like my view

Who's name calling? There is a difference between "you're a dick" (not said) and "don't be a dick" {which is advice for the future when the vaccine is available to you).

The use of emotive, dogmatic and/or aggressive language never encourages debate and never comes across as "questioning" but rather "demanding". Both sides would do well to remember that.

@MissConductUS

I think this is a great idea and hope we do something similar in the US. It will be enormously helpful to healthcare workers to know who's had it. We have a long historical acceptance of mandatory vaccination for school and university attendance.

I think the requirement to show the passport while phase out as herd immunity is achieved.

It probably won’t considering I listened to a radio interview when the GP was saying it may be rolled out yearly like the flu jab due to mutations ( which they are already seeing)

What’s to stop flu jabs eventually being added to the list?

Are we going to get to a point where a healthy 20 year old has to take a yearly cocktail of vaccines just to go to the football match or travel to France?

@Gancanny yes, and they can contract the disease and gain immunity that way. This isn’t like a lot of the diseases we vaccinate against which carry a very high risk of complications/death if we contract them. This disease is mild or asymptomatic in the vast majority of cases. The people who have contracted it so far are already contributing to herd immunity. Immunity from natural infection has been shown to last 6+ months. While the more vulnerable people are being vaccinated the rest of us will still be susceptible but we are at much lower risk of complications.

Herd immunity requires a certain proportion of people to be immune - that doesn’t just have to come from vaccination.

Yes it’s a very worrying development. Huge implications for free will and any suspicion of corporations. You effectively have to opt out of modern society. The same could be said for smart phones.

Your dog or cat can't be left in kennels if they haven't been vaccinated.

News just in: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55143484

Insurance - optional and not all types require any medical details,
Extreme sports - participation optional
Athletic events - depends on the type of event
Trampoline - for fun, name, dob and payment.

Restaurants - optional
Theatres - optional
Concerts - optional
Public transport - optional

Max I can imagine it's a worrying time for you, like looking into the unknown. I just feel so lucky I can have the vaccine with no problem. Good luck with it all.

I think most anti vaxxers have the luxury of refusing vaccines because they are protected by the herd of socially responsible people who are vaccinated

This with knobs on. If we all became anti vax, there would be chaos. It's a selfish lifestyle choice. I'm of an age where when I was young I had measles, german measles, chicken pox and mumps and I can tell you... a couple of those were bloody awful and I was really poorly.

I have no patience with anti vaxxers, and I'm sorry I mean covid ones too.

I would be first in the queue if I could given me and DHs ages and all our plans shattered.

What a suprise to see ageism alive and well on this thread

What annoys me about anyone who doesnt want to vaccinate, is they dont but they of course need everyone else to, for them to be able to live without this disease, pure selfishness.

What annoys me is when groups are lumped in together, and it's automatically assumed that those who don't want it are pure selfish. Those who don't want it shouldn't have to state because they are exempt due to health or reaction to any of the ingredients?

@Pinkroses87 It’s perfectly possible to prove immunity. The vaccine doesn’t necessarily prove you’re immune and, at the moment, pre-vaccine, there are already millions of people who are immune because they’ve had the infection. Why should immune people not be allowed to travel?

Are we going to get to a point where a healthy 20 year old has to take a yearly cocktail of vaccines just to go to the football match or travel to France?

And why not? You did notice that we having been living through a global pandemic that has killed huge numbers of people, right? You people are waffling on as if there is no reason for a vaccine, how appalling it is that we need everyone to take it. Where have you BEEN for the last year?

These 'debates' are quite silly really.

Childhood vaccinations are normalised and these people who are anti Covid vaccination probably ridicule parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids.

In a few years (or less) the Covid vaccine will be a completely normal thing to have.

The reactions of 'I'm not anti vax, but' are just reactionary individuals who seem quite happy to let people continue getting ill and/or die. Because it hasn't affected those people directly they don't think it's important.

I'm lucky to not know anyone who has died from it, but I'll be getting it at my first opportunity. Vaccinations exist for your and everyone else's safety, refusing it just seems idiotic and rebelling for the sake of it. Petty and stupid.

Go ahead and refuse. But don't expect venues, travel industries etc to put their staff and guests at risk. You have the right to refuse. You don't have the right to put other people in danger.

he vaccine doesn’t necessarily prove you’re immune and, at the moment, pre-vaccine, there are already millions of people who are immune because they’ve had the infection. Why should immune people not be allowed to travel?

Because so far the evidence is that immunity does not last.

Be helpful if people understood some basics before arguing about it.

I saw the following quote today which is quite apt
"insisting on rights while NOT asking about responsibilities is not freedom! It is adolescence!"
Demand more information, clarity etc if you need it but most people I've spoken to that are resistant don't really want that they want to be able to say no, without anybody else having the right to say no to them.
It's all a bit of a moot point for the majority of the population at the moment roll out to the whole population is going to take time so most people arguing about this aren't going to get offered it until probably at least the middle of next year anyway.

Insurance - optional and not all types require any medical details,

Not if you want to drive.

Those who don't want it shouldn't have to state because they are exempt due to health or reaction to any of the ingredients

Of course they should! Why not?
If there is a good reason why you can't have the vaccine, why don't you want to tell anyone?

Given the choice between being under constant lockdown or being required to have the vaccination to protect shop workers, hospitality workers, travel industry etc it seems fairly obvious which choice to make.

If a person has immunity why would they need the vaccine?

By the way ‘anti-vaxx’ doesn’t mean someone who just doesn’t want one particular vaccine

Yeah, it does. The whole world has been hoping and praying for this vaccine, if you're not on board, you are mostly definitely an anti-vaxxer.

😂 Nonsense! Lots of people want the vaccine so that the vulnerable can be protected, hospitalisations will decrease and pressure on health services will reduce. They may just not want to be vaccinated against something that is very likely to be mild for them or be vaccinated for something they are already immune too. Hardly the same as refusing all vaccination.

I can imagine that restaurants or venues who can choose whether they insist on immunisation might be very popular. If it were me, I'd use it as an advertising tool !
Then those restaurants that don't worry about it, you can all congregate together

Sorry - quote fail

By the way ‘anti-vaxx’ doesn’t mean someone who just doesn’t want one particular vaccine

Yeah, it does. The whole world has been hoping and praying for this vaccine, if you're not on board, you are mostly definitely an anti-vaxxer.

😂 Nonsense! Lots of people want the vaccine so that the vulnerable can be protected, hospitalisations will decrease and pressure on health services will reduce. They may just not want to be vaccinated against something that is very likely to be mild for them or be vaccinated for something they are already immune too. Hardly the same as refusing all vaccination.

@LoveandHateWhatABeautifulComb

Are we going to get to a point where a healthy 20 year old has to take a yearly cocktail of vaccines just to go to the football match or travel to France?

And why not? You did notice that we having been living through a global pandemic that has killed huge numbers of people, right? You people are waffling on as if there is no reason for a vaccine, how appalling it is that we need everyone to take it. Where have you BEEN for the last year?

You should spend some time going through the WHO website.

For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation

This is going of people who actually catch it. Most people don’t even know they have it. Your trying to force a covid passport for a virus most people don’t even know they have.

Anyone that needs the vaccine - they should have it. Anyone that doesn’t shouldn’t be coerced in to having it.