So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

In the last 39 years there have been 936 claims for vaccine damage payments. That's about 24 a year.

So hardly any then.

It’s sad that people like the OP are causing so much confusion and worry about the idea of a people being allowed to hold a personal health record. I think the minster also fucked up this concept in his interview.

Forget about COVID, it’s always been an issue for people travelling internationally that they need to provide health information. Be that about their vaccination status or why they are carrying controlled or prescribed drugs. For them it would be useful to be able to have access to part of their medical record and to be able share that with officials. A bumbling minister and screaming activists have shut that down.

Would it be useful internally within the UK. I think as an interim measure some businesses may find it helps them. For example in T2, groups of 6 who now have to sit outside could be allowed indoors if they have all been vaccinated. A bit of a privilege but it has some benefits for all. But it relies on definitive evidence that the vaccine stops spread. Which has not been evidenced yet. Other examples include allowing service providers to reduce infection control measures which add to business costs.

Cinemas won’t use them because a substantial part of the custom comes from families with children.

Most European countries won’t use them because their tourism relies on families with children.

It’s not necessarily a bad idea or one that would lead to long term social exclusion in the UK. But it could be a help to business to open up and reduce costs whilst the fight goes on.

Linking it to the test and trace app is wrong. It should go on the NHS app. Along with all other vaccines and a record of legally prescribed medicines.

@ShrikeAttack

It's very reminiscent of HIV. We were all terrified of sex in the 80s. The icebergs or doom..

We're all still here.

It's World AIDS day. And lots of us aren't here. Forty million mainly younger people have died. Millions more have undertaken life changing medication regimes to stay alive. Whole generation of lost people

@Burpeesshmurpees

Well the vaccine is only offered to over 50's anyway, no? So the over 50s can go about their lives like before and the rest of us can't travel or visit leisure facilities?? WTF?? It's like something from a dystopian novel

Oh, FFS that is not what will happen.

Jesus, last I heard people were moaning that the over 50s should shut themselves away so everyone else could get on with their lives.

I think if it is compulsory to have the app I won't be bothering with the vaccine as I won't be going anywhere anyway

@Burpeesshmurpees

Well the vaccine is only offered to over 50's anyway, no? So the over 50s can go about their lives like before and the rest of us can't travel or visit leisure facilities?? WTF?? It's like something from a dystopian novel

I do quite enjoy the idea of nightclubs opening only to the vaccinated, so to begin with being full of people aged 80+...

But that's why I don't think this will happen, except possibly for international travel. It'll take a long time for all adults to have a chance to have the vaccine (the people who say it'll all be over in a couple of months are kidding themselves) and there will be a slow ramping down of restrictions in that time, so requiring proof of vaccination to go to a restaurant will feel ridiculous because we won't actually be in the middle of a pandemic any more by the time it's a viable option.

Perhaps shops can stop gay people coming in in case they have Aids

You really can't see a difference here? Or do you actually believe you can get Aids by simply being in close proximity to someone?

@Gigheimer

They include work places and public transport.so it’s truly my “free choice” to not be able to work, earn and eat if I don’t take a vaccine? If I don’t choose medical intervention?

You call that free choice? We don’t demand it for measles, TB, Flu or anything else we trust to public uptake and prepare the NHS to deal with the rest.

Where did that go?

Some care companies already mandate that staff have flu vaccines. Flight attendants have to have HEP B. Military personnel have all sorts including Anthrax vaccines. Doctors have to have vaccines for some areas of work.

Making vaccinations a requirement isn’t a new thing.

I was recently at a London A&E. Literally empty. I asked the nurse how busy they were in the Hospitals with Covid patients. She said there are currently only 9!!

You only have to look at government data to see that London rates have calmed down in the past few weeks. I live not far from London and rates here are very high, hospital admissions continue to climb, and deaths are happening. You can't dream up an entire conspiracy based on anecdata.

Some nurseries in London already refuse a place to children not vaccinated against measles. This is a similar premise.

It's not "terrifying". It's sensible.

Consider if you had a child being treated for leukaemia in hospital; they have no immunity due to chemotherapy. Would you be happy that the nurses treating them hadn't been vaccinated against covid?

I think those with autoimmune conditions and disabilities should be able to get an exemption certificate. That done, and once the vaccine is available to everyone, I will be giving my custom to businesses that insist on a vaccination certificate.

I wish schools were the same and you had to show imms records for admission (barring of course those who medically cannot have the jabs).

ShrikeAttack I lost friends to AIDS and have friends and family members who have so far survived who have health long term problems.. People around the world still die from it if they don't have access to treatments.

"Why on earth would you not want it, it is absolutely ridiculous. You prefer to put your own, and others health at risk, as it’s your freedom. Deary me."

It would depend on how safe it is. It's being pushed through in a hurry and some people are naturally sceptical, especially as vaccines for viruses are notoriously hard to create. They've failed to create one for another covid, the common cold for decades.

It might be fine but given the dishonesty of the government and its willingness to use dodgy statistics to push through their agenda its hardly surprising if people have doubts and don't think the government would be too upfront about any negative consequences to taking it.

I wish people would read this it's about how people like the OP killed off a perfectly effective vaccine for Lime Disease (like Covid in lots of ways) by scaremongering at the time of Andrew Wakefield. Remember him?

www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/5/7/17314716/lyme-disease-vaccine-history-effectiveness

@hadenoughnegativity

The government need to provide more information from the correct and safe channels, discourage anti-vaccine bampots

Yes, they are going to recruit instagramers and religious leaders to dish out medical treatment advice

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/29/nhs-enlist-sensible-celebrities-coronavirus-vaccine-take-up

Why do you call someone who is worried about these new Covid vaccines bampots?

@TragedyHands

Totally agree, OP. I'm not a conspiracist either, funnily enough. People are scared and if you question their little narrow minds, they combust. So, they call conspiracist, instead. I don't intend to have it either, well, not for a long time.

Valid points undermined by rudeness

Big difference in the government making it compulsory and a company or venue requesting you have one befor coming in....

Once the vaccine has been rolled out, no company or venue wants to be the source of a fresh outbreak which would be incredibly damaging to their brand. It may likely only be to the end of 2021 that these rules would be in place.... So if you really don't want it then you will just have to put up with restrictions for another year.....

Personally, I'm finding all this terrifying. And it's even more terrifying that people are clamouring for the vaccine, calling for it to be made compulsory.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but you can call me one if you like.

But this is heading somewhere rather frightening. Covid has become the bogey man scaring people into sleepwalking into a future which could be terrible.

And like the OP says, it's compulsory in all
but name if you can't work, shop, travel, access education without it.

Let's keep arguing amongst ourselves though, eh.

"You really can't see a difference here? Or do you actually believe you can get Aids by simply being in close proximity to someone?"

Obviously I see a difference and no, I don't think you can get Aids by being in close proximity but if you have a principle that businesses or countries can refuse entry based on health reasons then why shouldn't they be allowed to stop anyone coming in who they think might be any sort of risk for whatever reason? After all, that's the only way to be really safe.

[quote trulydelicious]@TibetanTerrier

Likewise the 1976 swine 'flu jab also created problems for many, many receivers.

How about Pandemrix? That was a new vaccine approved by the EU in 2009. I suppose you will say that the UK Narcolepsy society are also conspiracy theorists?

www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy[/quote]
can we stop quoting pandemrix, it is a lot more complicated than that
Narcolepsy increased in countries where they did not use pandemrix. China and Taiwan had big rise following natural infection H1n1, There was a rise in sleeping sickness after the 1918 pandemic.

Also how long do people want to wait until they will deem it safe to have the vaccine... As most won't likely receive it until the spring anyway and by that point the phase one trialists would have had the vaccine for a year by then... Is that long enough?

@FrenchtoEnglish

I can see that there's a difference in that they'd be asking us to physically DO something to our bodies, rather than NOT do a specific behaviour

Because it's irreversible medical treatment

@Burpeesshmurpees

Well the vaccine is only offered to over 50's anyway, no? So the over 50s can go about their lives like before and the rest of us can't travel or visit leisure facilities?? WTF?? It's like something from a dystopian novel

Well to be fair that’s exactly how I felt when I saw thread after thread on here about ‘shielding the vulnerable’ and letting the rest of us crack on! Essentially ‘my personal risk is low so let someone else shoulder all the risk and inconvenience’.