So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

Didkdt, yes, that's what makes me so angry at the thread like this. They twist the fact, promote misconception, and think they are right. They say people who don't agree has no critical thinking. Sadly a lot of people fall for it. That's why these threads are so dangerous.

@Alexafrost

"You really can't see a difference here? Or do you actually believe you can get Aids by simply being in close proximity to someone?"

Obviously I see a difference and no, I don't think you can get Aids by being in close proximity but if you have a principle that businesses or countries can refuse entry based on health reasons then why shouldn't they be allowed to stop anyone coming in who they think might be any sort of risk for whatever reason? After all, that's the only way to be really safe.

I would love to see how Britain is going to try to change the 'principles' of other countries refusing entry. That worked well with Brexit. As for countries stopping people from entering because they pose 'any sort of risk' that is exactly what is happening in the world today. People are restricted from entering many countries because they do not have a sufficient bank balance, the right vaccines or the right skin colour. This principle is already in place.

It's very annoying the way people try to link this to free will. Maybe try arguing that it's your free will to starve if you lose your job because it's my free will to pressure government not to offer furlough payments? It's called community and we've had far too little of it in recent past. There are certain things that we all need to do for the community. Being polite is another, paying council tax, millions of ordinary things civilised normal people do because even though they may not feel like doing it, they recognise they are a member of a community which needs it.

[quote Didkdt]I wish people would read this it's about how people like the OP killed off a perfectly effective vaccine for Lime Disease (like Covid in lots of ways) by scaremongering at the time of Andrew Wakefield. Remember him?

www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/5/7/17314716/lyme-disease-vaccine-history-effectiveness[/quote]
Its quite ironic really as there was a fad of alternative healers diagnosing chronic lyme disease in every other person who got a little bit tired, just the type of people who are antivax.

It's being pushed through in a hurry and some people are naturally sceptical, especially as vaccines for viruses are notoriously hard to create

The vaccines have been developed quickly helped by previous advances but also by the huge amount of money and effort that has gone into creating them. Never before has there been this level of focus on a single disease. This virus is also an easier target for vaccines than many other diseases and new technologies have made it easier to build vaccines. That is why it took just 10 weeks from sequencing the virus to the first clinical trials.

They've failed to create one for another covid, the common cold for decades

The primary reason there isn't a vaccine for the common cold is that there are over 200 varieties of virus that cause it. It is therefore much harder to create a vaccine for the common cold than for Covid-19.

In fact, Britain itself already restricts entry on health reasons. I don't think most people on this board know that.

@Gigheimer - 'that's not freedom' to @PanamaPattie's comment.

It is your CHOICE, and choices, for those at liberty to exercise them, have consequences. There are lots of restrictions on freedoms exercised by the state on behalf of the wider good e.g. the sale of booze to minors is prohibited, building regulations prevent construction companies sending workers on site in unsafe conditions, food production regulations add costs but prevent potentially unsafe food being put into the market at rock bottom prices.

You are, nevertheless, still at liberty to make a lot of bad choices - what you eat, drink, smoke, how you spend your money, who you have sex with. But if those choices have a negative impact on others - you drive drunk, or are off your head persistently and can't look after your kids, for example - don't be surprised if you lose your license or your children are taken off you.

Making the choice not to have a vaccine that will stop a global pandemic in its tracks - OK, fill your boots, but just don't moan if you find your choices around work, travel and leisure somewhat curtailed as a consequence of your free choice.

The passport will also keep government's feet to the fire in prioritising supplies and distribution systems.

The idea actually been on the world economic forum for sometime now www.weforum.org/projects/commonpass

Just don't use those venues if you don't want the vaccine

Do we want all this shit going on for ever? NO!
Get the vaccine and get on with life!

@bruffin

can we stop quoting pandemrix, it is a lot more complicated than that

Compensation is being paid out for no reason?
Is Pandemrix still being given in Finland?

Some studies suggest that narcolepsy (believed to be an autoimmune disease) can be caused by both the virus or the vaccine

I think restrictions are going to start easing once the more vulnerable groups have been vaccinated and the hospitalisations decrease. When people start seeing those figures doing down and things getting back to normal, they will probably see less urgency for the vaccine and will understand why some people don’t feel the need to have it given the low risk of complications for the majority. The vaccine isn’t the only way to gain immunity.

All the senior doctors in my hospital have said they want the vaccine when it arrives. I’ll follow their lead. They wouldn’t have it if they were worried. Their only concern is how long the dose will last.

@HopeMumsnet

Does MN have a policy about posts that promote fake anti-vaccination information?

You’ve got free will. You either choose to have it. Or choose not too

Those others also have free will. Do they choose to let everyone or choose to let only the vaccine

You can’t be biased and say well I don’t want it. So as a business you’ve got to let me. That takes away their free will

There’s already been many years of do we really have free will. My mums thesis on her psychology paper was on it! She’s 70!

@Gigheimer

Well you won’t know why this is compulsory by the back door then Jingles or why I believe it’s a very real possibility, well done, you should be proud of your lack of critical thought.

And yes I’m being snippy but it’s irritating when people think a valued contribution is just to be dismissive, nasty or throw words like cunt and conspiracy around to anything that doesn’t fit the frothing rhetoric and complete unquestioning allegiance to a governmental message that a few months ago the overwhelming opinion on here was led by someone untrustworthy and destructive (BREXIT anyone?) not that I’m saying what side of that fence I sit.

I don’t agree with GinCanny but I’ll give her all due respect that she’s debating, with clear counter positions and alternative facts.

We are lacking questioning and critical thought on all current decisions, even outside of the all consuming Covid.

#nodebate #cancelculture #deplatform

What a world we inhabit...

@Gigheimer Well you won’t know why this is compulsory by the back door then Jingles or why I believe it’s a very real possibility, well done, you should be proud of your lack of critical thought.

Hahahaha! Maybe you should appreciate that we are capable of reading other sources of information apart from your post on a forum and could in fact understand the issue far more than you do or think we do.

Everyone has a choice.
I'm going to have the vaccine, you can choose not to and take the consequences, just the same as some vaccs are necessary for international travel now.

I doubt that the vaccine will ever be mandatory in the UK. I think anyone who doesn't want it is a bit deluded regarding the risks though. Why worry about the long-term effects of the vaccine but not the virus. Both are unknowns. I wouldn't be surprised if some countries will not let people in without proof of vaccination though. Some organisations may want proof of a negative test and they may expect people to pay for that.

Some studies suggest that narcolepsy (believed to be an autoimmune disease) can be caused by both the virus or the vaccine
Exactly its a lot more complicated than the vaccine caused it. It may be there would have been more cases if the H1N1 had been allowed to run wild.
There is also a theory that those that developed narcolepsy may have had a double hit of the vaccine and the wild virus.

We are lacking questioning and critical thought on all current decisions, even outside of the all consuming Covid.

We ? So you are the thought police too and know how everyone thinks.

You come over as having a very low opinion of people and assume you are right- that's how you are coming across.

@Roussette thanks. Yes all documented and I'm under care of two consultants (one for the tendon issues, one neurologist) so it should be okay, but it's the uncertainty that's the killer.

I was initially roundly dismissed by my then-gp surgery (the medication has since had a safety hearing and prescription criteria tightened, but that came too late for me) so I lost a lot of trust there unfortunately, although my consultants have managed to mitigate that again. So it's a worrying time just now.

@PowerslidePanda I could probably email my consultant once we've got a bit more information. He's got a very open-door (should that be open inbox?) policy and always tells me to contact him between appointments if it's anything urgent.

I should also say, I'm happy to pay for private tests for big things like travel or going to large events (to be fair, currently theoretical for me anyway!). I honestly don't mind doing my bit.

Totally agree OP.

@Belladonna12 but not everyone wants to be vaccinated for a disease that is low risk for them. We don’t all rush out every year to have the flu vaccine even though it’s available.

As far as I see it, people who choose not to have the vaccine are going to have a major impact on everyone else’s lives. So on balance, I’m ok with their decision having a fairly substantial impact on their lives too. If they don’t have it, we’ll all have to continue with the frankly shit system we have at the moment. So I am happy to tell them, if you don’t have it, you will have limitations.