It's best for children to be in school

[Billie18]

I'm shocked that the consensus here appears to be that schools should close. I believe that it's best for children to be in school. Also that they should not be forced to wear masks or perform any social distancing as this is a damaging for their mental and social development. A thread for parents and teachers who share this view and have concerns about the threat of school closures and forced isolation of children who are not ill.

The main thing 'advocating' for school closures is a respiratory disease pandemic to be fair.

Right now we have 5 out of 12 classes out. We are running on a skeleton staff. We've had to put children who display challenging behaviour on part time timetables because there aren't enough staff to keep everyone safe.

Meanwhile in school, children and staff are on edge and everything in a bit fraught. We're doing our best to remain outwardly serene, but children aren't stupid. I question whether it's best for the mental health of children in this school, to be in school.

I'm in a school in the south.

Spot on, Michael Rosen.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/01/dear-gavin-williamson-schools-spread-covid-life-or-death-for-parents-michael-rosen

I completely disagree about masks and social distancing. Some of the children in my school who’ve had covid have been really unwell and I’m sure the masks have stopped it spreading further.
They don’t even wear masks or distance in most primary schools so you’re clearly talking about older children which is what I disagree with.
It’s very stressful teaching in a school with new cases nearly every day.
Do you not think students in close proximity to positive cases should isolate? @Billie18
Come and do my job for a day or 2 and you may well rethink some of your idealistic views.
And I do think schools should be open but as responsibly as possible.

Ive had to send home staff with highly vulnerable relatives in the past few weeks, sobbing with fear after 15 students in one year were diagnosed - 2 of them really poorly.

It’s a fucking joke in schools and unless you’re in the thick of it and the ones making the decisions, I think people should have some empathy before twy post.

I’m a mum too and I totally want schools to be open but saying students shouldn’t self isolate is a joke and puts luces at risk.

I hope this thread is a wind up after the week I’ve already at school

*people not luces! Stupid typos when posting in anger!

I want schools to stay open, but I totally disagree with you OP about masks, social distancing, isolating etc. It's absurd to suggest that children should just carry on as usual as if there is no pandemic. We need to balance the needs of our children (for education, for social contact etc) with the needs of others to be protected from the virus - particularly teachers and other school staff but also parents in the more vulnerable categories etc. This means a compromise approach of keeping schools open but with appropriate precautions in place.

'I'm sick of entitled fuckers expecting me to needlessly place me and my family at risk for some imagined benefit to their own children.'

I'm not an entitled fucker I just understand that a consistent education is vital for children. Is education an imagined benefit?!

I agree teachers have to be more proactive. For example one of our schools doesn't have staggered finishes so they all come flooding out at the same time. Also I really cannot think of a good reason staff and students can't wear face covers in the class room. We all manage to be completely audible in them so why not teachers.

I've read the thread but can't find stats for infection rates or deaths in teachers. Are they much greater than the general population?

I agree teachers have to be more proactive

Teachers, in the sense they are generally perceived on MN, i.e. -whipping- boys- classroom teachers have no input whatsoever into arrangements about how the school manages Covid hygiene,. etc.

Jesus, epic punctuation fail.

'teachers have no input whatsoever into arrangements about how the school manages Covid hygiene,. etc'

Really? I thought staff meetings, head of years etc etc all contributed to planning. So say if a teacher suggested, from 2.30 or whatever on over year groups should leave at 10min intervals to prevent locker area congestion that would be dismissed? I didn't realise teachers had absolutely no say or input in the day to day planning or allowed to give suggestions to improve safety.

a consistent education is vital for children

Will children be getting a consistent education in cramped, crowded classrooms with rapid covid spread where they have to isolate repeatedly? With no warning and huge uncertainty? And where their teachers are disillusioned and pissed off? When they're scared they'll bring the virus home to their parents?

I doubt it.

The Michael Rosen article is good but there's an utterly brilliant post below the line from a Msellisbell - I'd recommend anyone who thinks teachers being put in the situation that we have are going to deliver a good education read it.

All the 'schools must stay open' brigade fail to realise is that schools CAN'T stay open without teachers and that the BENEFIT to children relies entirely on there being good, motivated teachers with energy, who like their job. If you say 'you can't have the basic protections that ALL other workers in the UK get' to teachers - do you think they'll give a fuck about teaching your children, or mail it in? I know what I'd do.

Respect goes two ways, that's something we teach children in school - a lot of parents (U4T among them) are treated teachers with utter disrespect - don't expect a good education or anything that will benefit your children to result.

In addition, children aren't stupid - except for the littlest they will SEE this disrespect for teachers. There are already reports of growing behaviour problems, and it's not surprising.

And aside from all this - people bleating on about how being in school is important - do you care that YOUR children are getting one of the worst, most underfunded educations in Europe so by YOUR reasoning are getting the worst mental health outcomes? Because the government won't fund smaller class sizes? Which would reduce transmission of covid AND deliver a BETTER educational experience?

No, far easier to teacher bash than think for 2 seconds.

Some of the children in my school who’ve had covid have been really unwell and I’m sure the masks have stopped it spreading further.

Yes, children can get very seriously ill and be hospitalised rarely - guess what would make this a lot less likely? Masks. Masks reduce viral load and reduce severity of disease - proved many times over.

So masks would actually protect children too.

All the people saying schools should be open, no masks, no sd are actually putting some children's lives at risk too.

Really? I thought staff meetings, head of years etc etc all contributed to planning. So say if a teacher suggested, from 2.30 or whatever on over year groups should leave at 10min intervals to prevent locker area congestion that would be dismissed?

Sorry, this tickled me.
Absolutely no say at all.

Heads of year might, but not your bog standard classroom teacher.

If you say 'you can't have the basic protections that ALL other workers in the UK get' to teachers - do you think they'll give a fuck about teaching your children, or mail it in? I know what I'd do.

On the other hand, some of the most empathetic people I’ve encountered in all this are the pupils I teach. They really get it. I am happy to do my best for them, even while everything around us is shit.

The “imagined benefit” isn’t education. It’s the not wearing of masks, the desire to not isolate children without considering the knock on effect to teacher absence. It’s the failure to invest in safer working environments which would make that education more consistent, because the aforementioned entitled arseholes can’t face anything but business as COVID free usually for their children.

@echt I've been extremely 'proactive' and still got Covid. I still want schools to remain open though, but with more government support. They are also absolutely freezing. Many don't have heating on and all the windows have to be open. It's hard to concentrate when you're so cold.

@IloveJKRowling

a consistent education is vital for children

Will children be getting a consistent education in cramped, crowded classrooms with rapid covid spread where they have to isolate repeatedly? With no warning and huge uncertainty? And where their teachers are disillusioned and pissed off? When they're scared they'll bring the virus home to their parents?

I doubt it.

The Michael Rosen article is good but there's an utterly brilliant post below the line from a Msellisbell - I'd recommend anyone who thinks teachers being put in the situation that we have are going to deliver a good education read it.

All the 'schools must stay open' brigade fail to realise is that schools CAN'T stay open without teachers and that the BENEFIT to children relies entirely on there being good, motivated teachers with energy, who like their job. If you say 'you can't have the basic protections that ALL other workers in the UK get' to teachers - do you think they'll give a fuck about teaching your children, or mail it in? I know what I'd do.

Respect goes two ways, that's something we teach children in school - a lot of parents (U4T among them) are treated teachers with utter disrespect - don't expect a good education or anything that will benefit your children to result.

In addition, children aren't stupid - except for the littlest they will SEE this disrespect for teachers. There are already reports of growing behaviour problems, and it's not surprising.

And aside from all this - people bleating on about how being in school is important - do you care that YOUR children are getting one of the worst, most underfunded educations in Europe so by YOUR reasoning are getting the worst mental health outcomes? Because the government won't fund smaller class sizes? Which would reduce transmission of covid AND deliver a BETTER educational experience?

No, far easier to teacher bash than think for 2 seconds.

Nails it.

@Nellodee it’s not entitled to want children to have an education. It’s not helpful to call people entitled f’s.
I absolutely agree measures should have been be put in place- some schools have. So much inconsistency.

A year 11 teacher has been signed off sick, I am now going to teach his year 11 class instead of my year 8 class. I haven’t studied that subject since I was in year 11 myself... I think those students may be better off doing online learning from their specialist teacher but I will try my hardest and read up on the subject for tomorrow.

There are huge inconsistencies between various schools, you're right, and Covid has highlighted them for all to see.
Some of this is down to funding formulae, others down to what different schools have prioritised in previous years, and then there arealso the huge discrepancies in buildings/grounds/facilities and catchment areas.
So, it's not always quite as simple as, "Well, School B down the road is doing this, so why can't school A?"

Is this what a 'consistent education' sounds like? because this is the reality for many schools.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

According that that report, 22% of secondary school children were absent last Thursday and 75% of schools send at least some children home.

In addition to, as pps have pointed out, many of the children who are in school being taught by supply or teachers without subject specialist knowledge.

It's not entitled to want children to have an education.

And it's not entitled to want schools, as institutions of education and workplaces, to be safe, properly staffed and able to function effectively either.

It seems very difficult to marry the two at the moment unfortunately.