Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

I'd rather my kids go to school and scrap the Christmas mixing! Nobody has to be alone as single people can have a support bubble.
It's just making a mockery of all the months of lockdown to then have 5 days of mixing 🤷‍♀️

@noblegiraffe

Government have talked about risk at Christmas. Whitty certainly has.

Whitty isn't government, but it is certainly easy to make that mistake.

Whitty and SAGE must be behind-the-scenes furious about this shitshow. They wanted schools to be included in the current lockdown, so they know they're a transmission risk. They'll know the impact that the Christmas relaxation will have when those school kids are mixing with extended family.

The message was from briefing so taken as government backed / briefed and organised.

But yes they do and I bet they are more uneasy about Christmas mixing than schools open. Whitty has always been very clear on harm being greater if schools close.

His uneasiness is the Christmas mixing.

Hard to rule against as people will anyway - is the thing. Going for mitigation instead.

What about schools that have GCSE mocks scheduled for these last few weeks before Christmas? My DS needs to be in school. If that means we can’t see our families so be it. It’s one Christmas and for us that is manageable. I accept it’s much hard for some people not to see their families.

Whitty has always been very clear on harm being greater if schools close.

And yet schools will be closed for 2 weeks at Christmas anyway.

I don't think his blanket statement about the harm of schools closed being greater than schools open takes into account the nuances around closing schools early for a week before Christmas in order to mitigate the risk of the school infection rate being brought directly to the elderly.

I agree Noble. I don't see why secondaries can't go online for that last week. It's literally 4.5 days. But gives a lot more in terms of spread.

It would help me mentally too. I am on tne edge after a hell of a term but maybe I should quit as has been said on many a thread.

Let me get this straight. Close all the schools a week earlier. And will all those hundreds of thousands of teenagers stay at home on their own, isolating until Christmas?

No - of course they won't. They think they are invincible. And an unfortunately high proportion of them think that nobody can stop them doing whatever they damn well please.

Closing a week early would be beneficial for teachers though.

Well we won’t know. I imagine he is still pro schools open as harm is greater if not. And that he has a good amount of input into policy on education - due to overall health and well being of children.

And I don’t think parent support is there. Previous poster of four out of class would be same as our situation. And easier for the four to remove themselves.

If that means we can’t see our families so be it.

But you are saying that understanding the risk that it will pose.

The government has lied about the risks in schools. The media have avoided publicising it, or have minimised it when they do talk about schools, with misleading data or photos prominently featured.

The government have even come on MN to try to tell us against the evidence of our own eyes that things in schools are fine.

The inevitable consequence of this is that some will not fully understand the risk, and will mix at Christmas fully in accordance with government guidelines.

The deaths will be their fault. But they will try to blame it on families.

and yet schools will be closed for 2 weeks at Christmas anyway.

Well yes no one is saying school holidays should go.

And will all those hundreds of thousands of teenagers stay at home on their own, isolating until Christmas?

Even if they don't, they will still have significantly fewer contacts than they do at school. We know they didn't stay at home on their own isolating over half term and yet the infection rate in teens dropped noticeably, only to rise again once half term was over.

Well yes no one is saying school holidays should go.

But if you are going to argue that school closures are unthinkably harmful, you need to show that an extra week added to a planned closure will actually increase the risk of harm to a greater extent than the harm of sending kids to elderly relatives at Christmas.

No I’m in favour of keeping school year fixed and individuals assessing own risk and SI on their own time. Their choice.

Looking at the petition thread on this nearly all saying same.

individuals assessing own risk

How can they do this against a background of government lies and media complicity?

A teacher in a local school died last week of Covid.

Relatives will die as a result of mixing over Christmas.

It is madness.

It has not been invisible. Look at posts on here. People know they just think they’re own risk is minuscule. Which it is on an individual level but still a risk which they can opt to take.

If people choose not to hear the message if caution that has been blatant then that is still their choice.

It has not been invisible. Look at posts on here

Against a concerted campaign to get threads shut down, posters hounded, constant lies, mantras and insincere posters. Even the DfE have joined in.

If people know the risks, it's because of massive efforts to overrule the propaganda message.

@from2metersthrowmeasweet

I'd rather my kids go to school and scrap the Christmas mixing! Nobody has to be alone as single people can have a support bubble. It's just making a mockery of all the months of lockdown to then have 5 days of mixing 🤷‍♀️

I couldn't agree more. All this nonsense just for one day!

@noblegiraffe

It has not been invisible. Look at posts on here

Against a concerted campaign to get threads shut down, posters hounded, constant lies, mantras and insincere posters. Even the DfE have joined in.

If people know the risks, it's because of massive efforts to overrule the propaganda message.

Caution re Christmas has been pretty clear unless someone is totally closed.

Looking at petition thread posters overwhelmingly want individuals to make their own decision and take child out if concerned.

It's making a mockery of all the months of lockdown to let the most infected subset of the population mix freely in large groups 5 days a week.

Of course the teenagers will be out and and about mixing as soon as the holidays start.
Because the message they've received at school is that everything's fine. Covid doesn't affect really affect their day to day life. They sit shoulder to shoulder in classrooms day in and day out, spend all breaks with their mates and travel to and from school with their mates. When nagged they don a mask to travel between classes and follow one-way systems, but the minute no-one is looking they break those rules.
So why should they start acting diffferently. There are too many mixed messages.

And like I said, teens mixing with each other in the holidays is still safer for them in terms of transmission than being at school.

I agree with StarryFire

My union certainly seem to favour closures, partly or wholly.

Schools are already partly closed due to inadequate infection controls. Which union favours full closure?

@Welcometonowhere

I agree with StarryFire

My union certainly seem to favour closures, partly or wholly.

Which Union are you with?

They should either say schools break up on 11th with online learning the week after or move the Christmas bubble thing to New Year if they have to do it.
Would only allowing 2 households to mix but making it a longer period of time not have been better?