Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

The misinformation about unions is a tactic of the government who spent the summer pretending they were engaged in a war with them over re-opening schools. It was bullshit then, it's bullshit now.

Not sure if posters believed the narrative or are just continuing that work.

Noblegiraffe l pm’d you.

The government and PHE guidance is clear that only close contacts should be sent home to isolate

Science and scientists (and sars-cov-2) on the other hand know that 'close contacts' only is completely insufficient to stop covid spread in an indoor environment because of aerosols.

There have been enough real life cases of indoor spread where people at the back of the room got infected for this to really not need repeating.

DfE and PHE are woefully WRONG on this. (also see Indie Sage report)

For illustration see below (scroll down for classroom)

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

The problem with this kind of ignorance from parents/general public is that it spreads misinformation about schools that far too many people then repeat
It’s so irritating. Many people, who actually work in schools, have outlined what the procedure is, time and time again. EG some of the Y13s at our school, that are now isolating, knew at the end of last week because of the app. The rest (who presumably don’t have the app) only found out for sure once the school had confirmed with the Health authority what measures they were allowed to take. Conversely, there have also been students who have been told to isolate by the app, who were then not required to self isolate when PHE got involved. Which is interesting considering Boris Johnson, despite having had Covid-19, insisted following the advice to SI was essential, and the right thing to do. Obviously he doesn’t extend that to students in secondary schools. Thankfully the students in question decided to adhere to the app advice.

@Welcometonowhere

Judas but while sixth form, 11s and 8s are out. 7s, 9s and 10s are not.

Obviously it is crap for the year groups affected but I’m not remotely convinced making it crap for everybody is the answer.

I am very much in favour of more secure and better paid jobs tax but I also do think we need to acknowledge recessions make securing and keeping jobs harder. One thing I do hope comes out of this mess is improved attitudes to time off work. We shall see.

Yeah, sure, 7s, 9s and 10s are, mostly, in. Lots of their teachers aren’t though. DDs Year10 friend is happy that from today she’s going to be ‘taught’ Maths by her favourite teacher for the next two weeks. He’s great, lovely guy, they all love him. He’s a cover music teacher though.......... And that’s just one example of many. As I said, two out of three, Y12 DDs, A Level subject teachers are self isolating. Just after half term there were no chemistry teachers in school at all and, at the same time, only one biology teacher,p. Biology being, by far, the most popular science choice for A Level. Self isolating teachers do their utmost to provide work, unless they are actually ill, but it isn’t equivalent to the usual standard of F2F education. Anyone convincing themselves that as long as students are ‘in’ school, everything is good, are deluded.

The NEU did want primary schools to close for 2 weeks in October. Do you think that was justified?

Many of them are still better in school judas

You don’t need me to go through that with you.

I am also worried that all this Christmas mixing is going to jeopardise January exams.

Personally I would not be surprised if the unions and some union rep teachers were encouraging/forcing schools to send home whole year group bubbles instead of just close contacts.

Sending home 250 year 9s instead of 5 or 6 close contacts of one case is certainly a way to inflate absence figures to help advocate for school closure

Clearly you haven't been in a school this century.

If only the Union had this power. Unions have NO power do do anything. How can you make statements like this without knowing that unions have virtually no power in this country?

Yes, I do wonder if people who think this actually have jobs. Since when did unions decide on whether workplaces are open or closed.

You don’t need me to go through that with you
And, once again, from the beginning the vast majority of teacher and concerned parent contributors to Nobles threads, didn’t want secondary schools closed. They just wanted them made safer. And because they weren’t made safer, because of denial, and data manipulation, and quite frankly, outright lies: We are where we are, now.
But, You don’t need me to go through that with you.
Interesting that my post regarding the GBP20,000.00 spent trying to make school safer for everyone, was one you chose not to comment on.......

@Covidnomore

The NEU did want primary schools to close for 2 weeks in October. Do you think that was justified?

Here's what they actually said, about secondary schools and colleges, and they were backing SAGE advice when they did it. And yes, it would appear from the data, that taking action then would have improved the situation in secondary schools now.

"The NEU is calling for an urgent circuit breaker to suppress COVID-19 cases.

The union says alongside other nationwide measures to suppress coronavirus, schools and colleges should be closed for two weeks at half term for secondary and post-16 students.

NEU joint general secretary Kevin Courtney said: “The latest infection survey report from the ONS (16 October) shows infection rates rising sharply amongst secondary age pupils – much more sharply than in any section of the population apart from university students.

“This should be no surprise to either the Prime Minister or the Department for Education – scientists have consistency told them that secondary students transmit the virus as much as adults, and we have warned them that because we have amongst the biggest class sizes in Europe we have overcrowded classrooms and corridors without effective social distancing.

“Our classrooms often have poor ventilation leading to airborne transmissions, and in many areas we have also have overcrowded school transport where children are mixing across year group bubbles. These children live in families and are part of communities, so even if they have few or no symptoms themselves they are still part of spreading the virus to others, including to teachers and other school staff.

“Such a circuit breaker could allow the government to get in control of the test, track and trace system, and get cases lower to allow the system to work better.

“Heads, teachers and school staff understand the educational impact of this, but we also understand that in exponential epidemics early action is essential. Taking action now can avoid more disruption later.

“The government must also guarantee the expansion of free school meals and holiday food provision for the disadvantaged during any such circuit breaker.

“All the above are urgent measures.

“However we may be in this situation for another year or more: to help prevent future disruption, the government should take steps to mitigate risk by expanding school space, increasing staff and therefore ensuring smaller classes and a greater ability to maintain social distancing. Government should be working with schools on plans for blended learning. This work needs to happen now.

“The Government must not just turn a blind eye and pretend all is going to be ok. They must not pretend that the only change needed is a delay of three weeks to next year’s exams. Urgent action is needed now.”

www.union-news.co.uk/neu-calls-for-circuit-breaker-to-suppress-covid-19-cases/

It’s a long thread judas, there is quite a lot I have not commented on.

What would you like me to say?

Despite the insistence there is no desire for schools to close, this OP states a desire for schools to close.

We are where we are now with r rate below one and cases dropping significantly. Things are looking up and most children have received a reasonable education this term compared to last.

@StarryFire

Personally I would not be surprised if the unions and some union rep teachers were encouraging/forcing schools to send home whole year group bubbles instead of just close contacts.

Sending home 250 year 9s instead of 5 or 6 close contacts of one case is certainly a way to inflate absence figures to help advocate for school closure.

The government and PHE guidance is clear that only close contacts should be sent home to isolate.

Would you now. Lots to learn!

It’s a long thread judas, there is quite a lot I have not commented on
Sure, I’m not special, no biggie. But as you seem to have bothered commenting on most of my posts, interesting you left that particular one out.

Despite the insistence there is no desire for schools to close, this OP states a desire for schools to close
As I said, yes, that’s because: We are where we are, now.

Well another of noblegiraffe's theads nearly full.

She knows how to draw the crowds!

this OP states a desire for schools to close.

Actually, this OP states a desire for the DfE to be more transparent about the risks in secondary schools. I'd also quite like people not to die as a result of their lies. Closing schools early for Christmas, or moving online would be one way to avoid that, however the DfE have overruled that option using powers under the Coronavirus Act that schools were up till now unaware that they had. They have also overruled the option for schools in Hull to move to rotas despite Hull officials begging to be allowed to as NHS staffing was close to collapse. They have also told schools that they should put any warm body in front of a class to keep schools open rather than prioritise health and safety.

They are not acting with public safety in mind and they are stopping heads from taking the best action for their communities.

@StarryFire

Personally I would not be surprised if the unions and some union rep teachers were encouraging/forcing schools to send home whole year group bubbles instead of just close contacts.

Sending home 250 year 9s instead of 5 or 6 close contacts of one case is certainly a way to inflate absence figures to help advocate for school closure.

The government and PHE guidance is clear that only close contacts should be sent home to isolate.

You’re clearly utterly clueless about the sort of influence teaching unions have in schools.

I’m lost as to what you’re getting annoyed about judas, tbh.

I didn’t comment on that because what’s to say? Well done him? Good job? Every school should have that?

Noble the NEU wanted all schools included in lockdown and rota afterwards.

They had also called for a circuit breaker but I am not sure of the details on that. I could dig i suppose.

Apologies if I am missing something but this is straight from their twitter feed.

The did change their #closeschools hashing to #putschoolsinlockdown.

Did it go down like a lead balloon?

That is one union I know, but here is the statement.

actionnetwork.org/forms/close-schools-and-colleges-now

NEU wanted all schools included in lockdown

So did SAGE.

Reduction at 30% seems good without doing so.

What did SAGE want to reach as a reduction?

Wales reintroducing restrictions after fire break or circuit breaker. Not good

SAGE’s role is to make scientific advice based on emergencies. If we are to take a view that purely considers the coronavirus and its impact, everything should be closed and remain closed.

However, some things do need to keep ticking over, because to close them would be a disaster. Schools fall into this category.

Wales reintroducing restrictions after fire break or circuit breaker. Not good

Well we've had a lockdown and most of the country are coming out of it in Tier 2+ so how is that any better?