Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

Having read op I thought it secondary wanting to close early but it’s primaries.

If DfE had not said u turn you’d get the same happening with other MATs. Not open to even key workers / short notice would be madness. People won’t blame DfE for cases rising but they will if they can’t turn up to work.

Besides it was for a jolly
This was to “safeguard the wellbeing of staff and pupils and protect precious family time together” over the festive break, the trust said.

‘Precious family time’ how hallmark of them. Maybe they should change the bumpf on their website too - ‘ We are proud to have a great team of people working in our academies who always put children at the heart of our practice’

If it was secondary and people wanted to keep them going then remote for one week after Christmas is more exam year focussed.

@BungleandGeorge everyone I have spoken to (apart from 1) have said they won’t mix at Christmas. There is some hope that people will sensible. On the radio this morning, infections have dropped 30% from start of 2nd (semi) lockdown.

Hey just heard that Pom

30% fall in cases - combination of tiers and lockdown

On average. Even higher NE and NW with up to 50% fall

Still need downward pressure up to Christmas but good to hear

Hello Marsha, I am so worried about nhs capacity in January, the news this morning was heartening, I hope folk don’t ruin the progress we have made. Hoping to get an update re vaccine in our comms meeting this morning, next week has been mentioned as a start date, nice to have a glimmer !

Totally! That would be good. Fingers crossed

We are not talking about mixing madly; for me it's about keeping the elderly EV adult in my support bubble (my dad) safe and not isolated on what might very well be his last Christmas.

Families all over the country have teachers/secondary students - or both as in my case. That's a lot of vulnerable people who are part of their support bubbles.

My friend, a primary school teacher, has asked her class what their Christmas plans are. Almost half are travelling to elderly relatives and /or having extended family over for Christmas and New year, that's, aunts, uncles, cousins, family friends. Not only do the schools need to close early, but they need to open a week or so later to protect the school staff in January. Most schools round here are reopening on the 4th. That's too soon in my opinion.

Also, all the reports of declining infection rates on the news this morning totally fail to recognise that half term, which was two weeks for some schools, would have massively contributed to a decline in cases this month.

@RingPiece

My friend, a primary school teacher, has asked her class what their Christmas plans are. Almost half are travelling to elderly relatives and /or having extended family over for Christmas and New year, that's, aunts, uncles, cousins, family friends. Not only do the schools need to close early, but they need to open a week or so later to protect the school staff in January. Most schools round here are reopening on the 4th. That's too soon in my opinion.

Are they ignoring three household and five day mixing? Whereabouts is this

Are they ignoring three household and five day mixing? Whereabouts is this

It seems that way. London. I think far more people than we imagine do ignore advice and even more are planning to this Christmas.

Damn London. Although sounds like the travel direction is outwards.

you may postulate that transmission is occurring in schools but you would have to then go on to study that specifically and eliminate that it happened by chance

Only a total blithering idiot would still think that transmission isn’t happening in secondary schools. Bloody hell.

Damn London. Although sounds like the travel direction is outwards. Yes, hey say they're going to Kent, Surrey, surrounding counties and probably family travelling from there into London. However, I'm sure this will be repeated throughout the country. In London, in my experience, people think it's all over. Very few masks on buses, people shutting windows, crowded public transport.

@RingPiece

Damn London. Although sounds like the travel direction is outwards. Yes, hey say they're going to Kent, Surrey, surrounding counties and probably family travelling from there into London. However, I'm sure this will be repeated throughout the country. In London, in my experience, people think it's all over. Very few masks on buses, people shutting windows, crowded public transport.

I haven’t done public transport, oh actually once all had masks, but masks zone 2 in shops near me pretty much 100%.

Busy on streets and in parks but to be expected with everything shut and outside is ok.

I’m really worried about DS (currently shielding back to school when lockdown ends) going back to school in January. We are north west so cases are thankfully coming down here but from the plans parents are putting on Facebook there is going to be a lot of mixing in the holidays.

Without some isolation before and ideally after the mixing the situation in the new year is scary. But then we have to trust that people will isolate anyway

We can’t even trust that parents won’t send a kid into school when they’re meant to be isolating.

Ah insults, you see I have a point then. The confidence intervals of that graph also mean that there could be no dip at all.

Ah insults, you see I have a point then.

No, I have every confidence you have no point because I work in a secondary school and can see transmission happening. The kids can see it happening. The only people who refuse to see it generally really don’t want to.

If you think about an airborne virus that transmits best in small, enclosed indoor spaces with poor ventilation, no social distancing and no masks and you’re going to try to argue that despite the graph, secondary schools are somehow magic and it doesn’t work like that there, then there’s no helping you.

In London, in my experience, people think it's all over. Very few masks on buses, people shutting windows, crowded public transport

This is bollocks IME. I was on a train Friday rush hour and it was dead. And I rarely see anyone in a shop or on transport without a mask.

We can’t even trust that parents won’t send a kid into school when they’re meant to be isolating.
So true. I've heard of a child who had tested positive earlier that week turning up at school. The teacher knew they were isolating as it was recorded on the register and were shocked to see them back so soon. They were put in the isolation hub and parents were called to collect them. Parent who arrived was also positive. They claimed they didn't understand/ realise and thought it was ok if they were feeling better.

@Sandyplankton

In London, in my experience, people think it's all over. Very few masks on buses, people shutting windows, crowded public transport

This is bollocks IME. I was on a train Friday rush hour and it was dead. And I rarely see anyone in a shop or on transport without a mask.

I think this shows that just as no two areas are the same, no two schools are the same.

This is bollocks IME. I was on a train Friday rush hour and it was dead. And I rarely see anyone in a shop or on transport without a mask.

I'm on a bus this very moment. On the bottom deck. I've counted three people including me wearing a mask properly, four with a mask under their chin or nose and two without.

We all have different experiences. I'd love to take a photo but that's probably not allowed.

Ringpiece are you in an area of London with higher cases?
We’re on about 97 for comparison

And dropping tg

In a borough with very low cases. Maybe that's why people are behaving like this here.