Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

Surely if we were to close schools so kids can self isolate, then we need to shut absolutely everything down for the 2 week period?

All shops to shut, including supermarkets (food parcels be delivered).

And all elderly and vulnerable and others are banned from leaving the house.

As I sure as he'll ain't locking my kids away when everyone else is out and about.

Daft idea- of course it is, but really people want to lock their kids away? When some have already had self isolation forced upon them.

I'm going to go against the grain here too. If my kids are going to have to self isolate due to a Covid case in school I would rather it was over the Christmas holidays.

The government have to close things to prevent infections being spread too quickly.

This is not however permanent, as we all realise, and once that permanency is removed, people have every right to do as they wish.

Fripp’ that is a stance I have every sympathy with.

It will not really benefit your child in any way, educationally or otherwise, if the house is repossessed.

Pricate going by petition thread and what I know about schools here I doubt they would be that empty at all.

Private that is

The support isn’t there.

No, people choosing to mix at Christmas will cause deaths this Christmas.

Private also going with idea that SD helps lower risk.

‘Surely if we were to close schools so kids can self isolate, then we need to shut absolutely everything down for the 2 week period?’

No because the most cases are now in education.

I have to work so isolating isn’t an option, but we’re not seeing additional people over Christmas. If you finish on the 18th and have the option to isolate for 2 weeks completely then yes I would say do that and see grandparents later. I haven’t broken rules but I think that’s ok. You may need to provide care or whatever the caveat is anyway. The infection starts on day 5-7 in the vast majority so you could also largely reduce the risk by waiting until the 26th which would still be allowed. I’m all for following the rules but if you genuinely will totally isolate for 14 days I really couldn’t get upset about that. It will suit some to isolate and not others (including amongst teachers) but barring an emergency it’s not going to happen with less than 3 weeks to go. That part came across loud and clear from the briefing I thought?

@FrippEnos

StarryFire I also think the lack of provision from schools during the original lockdown has made the government and parents extremely wary of closing them again.

The lack of provision had nothing to do with the unions and everything to do with the lack of guidance from the government who also stopped the curriculum.

The unions have in many ways shot themselves in the foot with their opposition to online teaching, marking and one-to-one support.

Which has never happened.

And lets be totally honest the main reason that parents don't want schools to close has little to do with education and more to do with being able to work and get money.

Ok, so the government should have given more guidance on home learning. So teachers don't have the autonomy to realise for themselves that posting a few twinkl sheets once a week was inadequate? This really startles me. It comes back to this personal responsibility thing again. It shocks me how much direction teachers are saying they need from the government.

In my line of work, experts in the field came together to put in place guidance for all of us. The government didn't have to get involved at all, our profession was able to work it out for themselves. My profession is autonomous though, but I genuinely used to think the teaching profession was too.

But I am a 40 year old woman and if I decide I wish to sit in a restaurant, I shall do so.

You literally can’t right now? Assuming England, of course.

Wanging on about personal responsibility is pointless when the government are only using it to cover up the fact that their Christmas policy is massively reckless.

It wouldn’t be closing schools a week early so that children can see their grandparents at Christmas, it would be closing early because the government has insanely said that children can see their grandparents at Christmas in the middle of a pandemic when they are the most infected subset of the population and something needs to be done to stop the inevitable horror show.

The ‘personal responsibility’ people also agree that it’s a terrible idea that will result in more deaths but instead of trying to mitigate the risk are instead running around saying IGNORE THE GOVERNMENT, THEIR POLICY IS MAD

One of these methods for dealing with the catastrophic policy will be more effective than the other.

No because the most cases are now in education

Link to data please?

And all were caught in school.

We are not yet out of lockdown so we have yet to see full impact of lockdown but cases are coming down nicely.

So whilst I don't disagree that there are a considerable amount of cases in education, inhabe not yet seen the data that most cases are in education.

My profession is autonomous though, but I genuinely used to think the teaching profession was too.

You have no idea how much political interference there is in education then.

My first experience of it was hearing Y9 SATs be cancelled on breakfast television then having to go straight into a Y9 lesson and try to explain what the fuck had just happened.

@PrivateD00r "My profession is autonomous though, but I genuinely used to think the teaching profession was too."

😂😂😂😂😂

We wish!! Gove and Cummings killed that off completely in 2011.

No, of course I can't giraffe, hence why I said in an earlier post ‘when open.’

People have the right to make that decision. Other people making that decision should not mean my child cannot attend school.

I also don’t think we can blame Gove for the Twinkl worksheet debacle.

@noblegiraffe

But I am a 40 year old woman and if I decide I wish to sit in a restaurant, I shall do so.

You literally can’t right now? Assuming England, of course.

Wanging on about personal responsibility is pointless when the government are only using it to cover up the fact that their Christmas policy is massively reckless.

It wouldn’t be closing schools a week early so that children can see their grandparents at Christmas, it would be closing early because the government has insanely said that children can see their grandparents at Christmas in the middle of a pandemic when they are the most infected subset of the population and something needs to be done to stop the inevitable horror show.

The ‘personal responsibility’ people also agree that it’s a terrible idea that will result in more deaths but instead of trying to mitigate the risk are instead running around saying IGNORE THE GOVERNMENT, THEIR POLICY IS MAD

One of these methods for dealing with the catastrophic policy will be more effective than the other.

Christmas mixing IS madness so if anyone understands this then great.

It pissed me off but did all I can do to change their policy. I can also see why they’ve had to allow some but try to control numbers.

But also press on caution message.

Sod all

[quote monkeytennis97]@PrivateD00r "My profession is autonomous though, but I genuinely used to think the teaching profession was too."

😂😂😂😂😂

We wish!! Gove and Cummings killed that off completely in 2011.[/quote]
So you genuinely weren't allowed to plan your home learning beyond the twinkl work sheets? Seriously?

My post was in reference to that, not larger political decisions which are obviously outside your control

Marsha you may be right, but I guess my point is that I am ready and willing to go with the majority and not fixated on my own situation

PrivateD00r

The government stopped the curriculum.
Schools didn't and teachers didn't.

The current guidance is just as woolly.

And there is still no real information on what is happening with exams in England.

So even when you think that teachers should have been more autonomous there should have been (at very least) a basic level set by those in charge.

This is something that is still not happening.
and just FYI most of us set more than "twinkl worksheets" but as long as you are happy with your generalisations.

My kid got set twinkl worksheets over lockdown and it was fine. I’m aware that provision was patchy and in some cases terrible, but I also think that some people wouldn’t have been happy with anything short of the teacher coming around their house. Anything that required even the slightest bit of parental engagement would have been terrible.

@PrivateD00r I don't even know what Twinkl is tbh but I did recorded and live lessons during lockdown 1 (am a secondary school teacher).

@PrivateD00r

Marsha you may be right, but I guess my point is that I am ready and willing to go with the majority and not fixated on my own situation

The majority appears to be keep them open. But yes your school/ class may be different if you’ve been hit hard.

We’ve been minimally impacted so no way here.

[quote monkeytennis97]@PrivateD00r "My profession is autonomous though, but I genuinely used to think the teaching profession was too."

😂😂😂😂😂

We wish!! Gove and Cummings killed that off completely in 2011.[/quote]
And yes, now I have read that back I can see how idiotic the bit about my profession sounds made sense in my head at the time....

Private also here idea going down like a lead balloon.

@OverTheRainbowLiesOz

There is a third choice that they can keep the schools open until right before Christmas but not go back for at least two weeks after the 27th.

True. But that wouldn't protect the elderly at Christmas and the hospital admissions.

The elderly can choose whether to mix with schoolchildren at Christmas time. My parents are certainly not going to. It's not a good reason for closing schools. I think schools should just go back later as children, their parents and teachers can't avoid mixing.