Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

My Christmas is a quiet Christmas Day and dinner at my mums. 3 of us. Sometimes 6 on Boxing Day, Ive only ever been to a Christmas party twice in my adult life. I dont drink and have never been pissed. (not judging btw , its just never interested me)
But it does feel like in this dystopia you are penalized for being the sensible one because its quiet household visits that are banned. For months this year and now looks like another 3 months at least apart from possibly Christmas, even tier 2 is no good if older relatives cant stand outside in the cold. So it does feel like being penalized for being the "sensible one" Which is how ive been referred to.

When I see politicians devastating the world economy for a virus which has a death rate comparable to normal seasonal flu outbreaks then I can only conclude they are stupid, ideologically possessed or there really is some grand conspiracy. I don't believe the latter so some combination of the other two is the most likely.

The first lockdown might just have been excusable. We didn't know exactly what we were getting and people were producing wildly inaccurate predictions of possible death rates. However, by now even the biggest dunderhead should be able to see that the cure is a lot worse than the disease.

My main conclusion at this point is that outside of those politicians who are not simply voting at their party's call without investigating things for themselves, some are still ideologically possessed by the quasi-religion of lockdown and the others are just too stubborn or ashamed to admit they got it wrong and are doubling down on a suicidal policy to save face. After all, they can blame the huge recession and job losses and the deaths resulting from that on Covid not on their own demented response to it.

Flu also kills young people. In children and the young it is far more deadly than Covid. Yes, you will get deaths that buck the trend but the trend is that the vast majority who die of Covid are very old and/sick.

The death rate among the young is extremely low and very low among the middle aged. It makes no sense to lockdown the country to try (and fail due to lack of proper shielding) to save the elderly and sick, especially as the lockdown will kill more people in the longterm than Covid will in the short.

Victoria wasn't the great success you claim and if you look at the countries which had an easier time with Covid there is no consistent policy among them. There was no lockdown in South Korea, for instance.

Even if lockdown did work, it can only be a short term policy. Even most professional-lockdown advocates don't believe it will stop the inevitable spread of infection. It is a delaying tactic to help protect health services from being overwhelmed.

You cannot hide from a disease. As soon as you open things up nationally and internationally you will get a rise in infection rates, which is why we have this crazy hokey-cokey approach to locking things down in the UK.

The main problem we have is that lockdowns will kill more people in the longterm than Covid will in the short. Poverty is one of the greatest killers not to mention cancer and alcholism. Missed treatments for cancer, heart disease and other chronic ailments are going to take their toll. Depression and suicide doesn't help either.

It's not that old people's lives don't matter it's that everybody else's does as well. Lockdowns will kill more people than Covid will and we did little to actually shield the most vulnerable and sick from the virus.

It doesn't make sense to push huge numbers of people into inevitable poverty and depression as well as neglecting life saving treatments for cancer and other deadly diseases to 'save' people whose lives can be counted in months nor years.

I think a sign of what a bad state the UK is in is that after almost a year of this we still have no government strategy, the ruling party is still bickering internally about how to tackle the crisis and half the public is still spouting unscientific drivel about 'flu kills too' and 'lockdowns don't work' and 'living with the virus'.

The scientific community is very clear. The British government and public are frankly frustratingly obstinate.

Many people seem to be loving this opportunity to exist in their little family bubble and to not have to see relatives they don't like.

@ShangelaLaqueefaWadley

Many people seem to be loving this opportunity to exist in their little family bubble and to not have to see relatives they don't like.

I am desperate to get out of lockdown and get back to the things we love doing, many of which are completely shut down, but I admit there are some people I'm not missing

I mean frustrating colleagues in my case!

Yes we are well on our way to living in China.

It’s sad and depressing that so many people seem to be happy just existing rather than living

@Alexafrost

Victoria wasn't the great success you claim and if you look at the countries which had an easier time with Covid there is no consistent policy among them. There was no lockdown in South Korea, for instance.

Even if lockdown did work, it can only be a short term policy. Even most professional-lockdown advocates don't believe it will stop the inevitable spread of infection. It is a delaying tactic to help protect health services from being overwhelmed.

You cannot hide from a disease. As soon as you open things up nationally and internationally you will get a rise in infection rates, which is why we have this crazy hokey-cokey approach to locking things down in the UK.

The main problem we have is that lockdowns will kill more people in the longterm than Covid will in the short. Poverty is one of the greatest killers not to mention cancer and alcholism. Missed treatments for cancer, heart disease and other chronic ailments are going to take their toll. Depression and suicide doesn't help either.

You are just wrong. Victoria has been an absolute success.

No cases in 25 days! Lockdown can and does work. If done right.

I’m not sure Victoria was an unqualified success. They were saying on the news that their economy is completely fucked.

Lockdown does not protect the elderly. It protects anyone who needs health care for any reason by ensuring that all hospital beds are not full of covid patients - and the beds in the car parks too. There are other countries who have been giving oxygen to people in cars and in beds in their under cover car parks. Belgium have done this, parts of America are doing this.

Lockdown protects people of all ages from dying without someone there to ease the pain. We are already at the point where nurses cant help to feed patients in hospital who have problems eating.

Those who hate lockdown are those who really wish to kill off those who are sick - they just dont have the guts to come out and say that openly.

Meanwhile some businesses are doing rather well out of lockdown, the ones who have adapted to home delivery. Some businesses are suffering but there will be a vast unleashed pent up demand when this is over. The economy will recover.

The economy will recover.

That depends upon how you define the economy. Big business will most certainly recover and, in many cases, thrive when we are back to some kind of normality. Small businesses however, will continue to struggle, many to the extent that they will not survive.

There are big questions as to what sort of country we want to live in after the pandemic is over.

Do the pro lockdown era not understand that lockdown weakens immunity for everyone? The elderly and immuno compromised need fresh air, exercise and joy in their lives to stay healthy. Immune systems work best when they have work to do. Lockdowns don’t just kill the impoverished and mentally ill. They kill the old, the lonely and the very people they are meant to save. If you know someone who is elderly who has been shielding for months then please take extreme precautions when you do see them because they will be susceptible to every germ and pathogen you are carrying. The effects of lockdown are going to be felt long after COVID.

@BefuddledPerson

I think a sign of what a bad state the UK is in is that after almost a year of this we still have no government strategy, the ruling party is still bickering internally about how to tackle the crisis and half the public is still spouting unscientific drivel about 'flu kills too' and 'lockdowns don't work' and 'living with the virus'.

The scientific community is very clear. The British government and public are frankly frustratingly obstinate.

Flu kills thousands of Brits every year, and tens of thousands many years. We'll be forever living with the virus. Lockdowns on their own don't work.

All scientific facts.

Most small businesses in my area are doing just fine, some considerably better than normal as more people shop local. The hospitality businesses mostly switched quickly to takeaway and home delivery, the ones slow off the mark may go under but small businesses that are poorly run often go under. The non-essential shops have started doing click and collect - or sometimes home delivery, usually over a set amount. They are getting government support. The business run by an anti masker is not doing so well.

The ones having more of a struggle are the charities and they are getting food and cash donations. Some self employed have problems but the agile have taken on other work to tide them over.

Airlines and travel businesses may go under. Poorly run businesses may go under. Some businesses will have thrived and grown.

Lockdown damage is being deliberately over-stated.

Having just lost a friend in his fifties, with no underlying health problems, to covid, who has left behind a wife and son, I would rather he had the choice to go on merely existing a bit longer and go back to living when the time is right.

Oh and our local hospital now has over twice the number of covid patients now that it did in the first wave, and getting an appointment for anything else is almost impossible, I have a relative with severe heart and lung problems and a neighbour with heart damage, possibly due to long covid, neither of whom can be seen, never mind the long list of people, including myself and husband who are living with uncomfortable but not life-threatening conditions with no hope of seeing anyone for goodness knows how long.

I often worry about how people would cope if there was a full on serious killer virus.

One that had an IFR of 30% across the whole population, kids included, not the already ill?

Hell, AIDS had an IFR of 100% when it first appeared in the 80's and we didn't decimate economies for it or stop civilised life - we gave out clear health messages and we all got on and took our risks appropriately.

I think the way we get our information has changed how we respond to these 'crises' - yes, social media and 24/7 news cycles. It creates fear, it creates totally risk averse politicians who are worried about the next damning headline, and it divides people into camps who then get more and more entrenched.

99% of the population wouldn't even know coronavirus existed if there wasn't the wall to wall coverage of it.

"The scientific community is clear" except for the vast number of scientists who disagree.

Would you like to explain how a lockdown kills a virus?

What effect has it had on the longterm economy? How many people will die as a result of missed treatments, poverty, depression, suicide, alcoholism etc. How will you prevent the virus returning once you open the country up internationally?

@alreadytaken

Most small businesses in my area are doing just fine, some considerably better than normal as more people shop local. The hospitality businesses mostly switched quickly to takeaway and home delivery, the ones slow off the mark may go under but small businesses that are poorly run often go under. The non-essential shops have started doing click and collect - or sometimes home delivery, usually over a set amount. They are getting government support. The business run by an anti masker is not doing so well.

The ones having more of a struggle are the charities and they are getting food and cash donations. Some self employed have problems but the agile have taken on other work to tide them over.

Airlines and travel businesses may go under. Poorly run businesses may go under. Some businesses will have thrived and grown.

Lockdown damage is being deliberately over-stated.

You are incredibly naive with this summary.

Just because a business is open doesn't mean it is making any profit! A restaurant with 120 covers won't be able to make anywhere near what they were by doing takeaway.

And casually saying that 'airlines and travel businesses may go under' - do you realise what you are saying there? 180,000 people are employed directly in aviation in the UK. That doesn't account for the suppliers to the industry, the travel agencies, everything connected to airports.

Honestly, I just get more and more astounded by the naivety of people who would casually throw away the economy as if we don't really need it

Why will the economy recover? It will do so eventually do doubt, but years of depression and poverty for millions will be the direct result. The deaths from lockdown will outnumber those of Covid in the longterm. Never underestimate the effects of poverty and economic slumps on death rates.