Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

So if the current thinking is true and the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, the unvaccinated will be at much greater risk than now because it will be allowed to spread like wildfire

Can someone explain this to me as I am clearly too thick to get it

I keep reading this and I am sure it is true but I genuinely don’t understand the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission thing

If the vaccine stops person A getting it how can they pass it on if they don’t have it? If less people overall have the virus, won’t it be less likely to spread?

@MadameBlobby

So if the current thinking is true and the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, the unvaccinated will be at much greater risk than now because it will be allowed to spread like wildfire

Can someone explain this to me as I am clearly too thick to get it

I keep reading this and I am sure it is true but I genuinely don’t understand the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission thing

If the vaccine stops person A getting it how can they pass it on if they don’t have it? If less people overall have the virus, won’t it be less likely to spread?

As far as I understand it, the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it, it helps your body fight it. You could still get it and pass it on.

And that's why they are suggesting we all carry on social distancing and wearing masks, even when we've had the vaccine.

@Jourdain11

Children with T2 diabetes is a national disgrace, a total failing of healthcare

And gets to the murky waters in this debate. Healthy people are expected to limit their entire lives for people who have a condition which is totally reversible and for which lockdown has no impact.

Lockdown doesn’t cure diabetes. And diabetes needs to be reversed for the danger to go away. Lockdown just kicks the can down the road, anc we’ll never be free unless this is dealt with at the core.

Meanwhile, the accusations of selfishness to people like me are becoming very wearing if people with lifestyle illness don’t do anything about it. I find it somewhat selfish that people expect the world to shut down because they have an illness which they could do something about but don’t.

Anyone with metabolic syndrome should be doing something about it (hyper tension, T2 etc). It can’t be on everyone else, and I include the NHS in that. People who work in the NHS would be much less busy if this happened

@BringItOnBaby But for how long? How long can we live like that?

I do wonder whether, in addition to having an utterly incompetent and frankly corrupt government, our Covid stats would not be as bad were it not for us being the fat man of Europe.
And again, the shutting down of debate is so damaging because whilst the mantra reigns that Asia has done well with Covid because they all wear masks and are more compliant, the issues around their far lower obesity levels (and many other societal differences) are ignored.

This blaming the old and the sick stopping me getting on with my life sits really uncomfortable with me. Coupled with all the conspiracy theories this thread does not make great reading.

Ah thanks @BringItOnBaby.

I’m afraid I think that once the vaccine has been rolled out anyone who has chosen not to have it has a cheek to expect the rest of us to still wear masks to protect them. I suppose the thing is that some people might not genuinely be able to have it.

[quote Pandemicanxiety]@BringItOnBaby But for how long? How long can we live like that?[/quote]
We can't and most people won't (me included). Which in my opinion means those choosing not to be vaccinated are taking a bigger risk than they might imagine. I think it's going to be hugely divisive.....

@MadameBlobby

Ah thanks *@BringItOnBaby*.

I’m afraid I think that once the vaccine has been rolled out anyone who has chosen not to have it has a cheek to expect the rest of us to still wear masks to protect them. I suppose the thing is that some people might not genuinely be able to have it.

I agree. And so far there hasn't been a list of people who can't have it I don't think - they are giving it to the elderly and vulnerable first! So I really will have very limited patience for continuing social distancing once the vaccine programme is fully rolled out,.

Personally I’d say if you don’t get the vaccine on your own head be it. We will treat you if we have space but we will bump you from the icu bed (in the unlikely event you end up there) if it’s needed for something else

Doesn't this kind of statement, fit in with the topic of this thread? Deciding that one life is valued more than another, because of a vaccine? Let's go the whole way and have the NHS treat only the 'deserving'. All the drug addict, the alcoholics and whatnot, we could bump them...

1.3 million people still died of TB in 2019 and there is a vaccine for that. Hundreds of thousands die of the flu each year, and there is a vaccine for that. Not everyone has these vaccines, yet life continues without draconian measures?

@MadameBlobby

Ah thanks *@BringItOnBaby*.

I’m afraid I think that once the vaccine has been rolled out anyone who has chosen not to have it has a cheek to expect the rest of us to still wear masks to protect them. I suppose the thing is that some people might not genuinely be able to have it.

I have no plans to have a vaccination and, far from expecting anyone to wear one to "protect me", would be grateful if face masks for the general public could be swiftly consigned to the great dustbin of history.

Isn't there some doubt over whether under-18s can have it? And I think they've said pregnant women definitely can't (lots easier because it's temporary, of course - I have wondered whether it'll include breastfeeding women too, as blanket bans on medication often do). And I think there are people who are too immune-compromised to have it. I think these are reasons for as many people who can to have it to ensure herd immunity, rather than for restrictions to continue forever, though - that's how we treat all other diseases; we don't make everyone get the measles vaccine and we don't follow measles prevention measures even though a small minority refuse it, but most people do think that having the vaccination is the right thing to do not just for yourself but to protect those that can't be vaccinated.

I'm not sure any of the vaccine plans included under 18s.

But hopefully those who have already had it will contribute to her immunity?

• herd immunity

@Carrotcakeforbreakfast

Fucking hell

Have I stumbled onto a David Icke forum instead of MN?
Ah well just let the old people die ay.
All these 70/80 year olds who up until covid were fine. Don't let them in the hospitals just leave them to suffocate at home alone.
Fuck it. They're old anyway, right?

Absolutely disgraceful and all of the alternatives I've read on here are as sensible as some of the theories.

Um....none of us have put forward anything like this.

Bit early for gin? Or glue?!

The problem is, that in this country we now have such an avoidant attitude to the real health issue that is obesity. I'm not talking about carrying a bit of extra weight or being a bit plump, but the real and very worrying health risks which are affecting so many people from a young age because of diet and inactivity.

This thread seems to have changed direction now. But with regards to the above - it does seem crazy that we're stopping sports, closing gyms and swmming pools etc

It's like the government want us all to be even more unhealthy and obese. All of us.

@CordeliaCroft

This blaming the old and the sick stopping me getting on with my life sits really uncomfortable with me. Coupled with all the conspiracy theories this thread does not make great reading.

Quite.

@MadameBlobby

Ah thanks *@BringItOnBaby*.

I’m afraid I think that once the vaccine has been rolled out anyone who has chosen not to have it has a cheek to expect the rest of us to still wear masks to protect them. I suppose the thing is that some people might not genuinely be able to have it.

I feel that those choosing not to have it, or choosing to take a wait and see approach while more long term safety data is gathered are those least likely to expect others to do anything to protect them.

@HitchikersGuide

I do wonder whether, in addition to having an utterly incompetent and frankly corrupt government, our Covid stats would not be as bad were it not for us being the fat man of Europe. And again, the shutting down of debate is so damaging because whilst the mantra reigns that Asia has done well with Covid because they all wear masks and are more compliant, the issues around their far lower obesity levels (and many other societal differences) are ignored.

Also the fact that there are high levels of T Cell immunity in the East Asian countries from the SARS outbreak in 2003. That it is possible that all the 'restrictions' made no difference at all, and it was simply down to population immunity.