Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

I'm with you on the vaccine sceptism @neron and @Dowser.

I think many people are but just are afraid to say so.

If they work - that's brilliant. But I'm not expecting them to make everything go back to normal suddenly like magic.

The reality is there will be ups and downs and challenges etc and it will take a very long time for them to make any kind of difference. If they make any difference at all.

. I suppose the thing is that some people might not genuinely be able to have it

And going by very recent history and experiences i suppose they will have to wear a lanyard declaring why.

"Many people (including me) who are at risk from Covid cannot have the vaccine and are relying on herd immunity when 60% of the population is vaccinated."

Do you mean when 60% of the population is immune? Many of us already have immunity from contracting CV itself and recent studies have shown that it lasts at least 6 months

""We can be confident that, at least in the short term, most people who get COVID-19 won't get it again," said Professor David Eyre, one of the authors of the research."

So hopefully a level of herd immunity isn't too far away. I would like to see widespread testing to establish how many of us are actually immune. I think it's a heck of a lot higher than what we think already given the level of asymptomatic cases - particularly among children.

OP, I agree with you. It's shocking how quickly people are willing to give away their freedom. Honestly, I don't think this scale of panic and fear would be possible without social media and other media outlets reporting all the case numbers even though the vast majority of those cases are mild and dealt with at home. IFR by age group BMJ study. What kind of precedent are we setting for the future?

That is an interesting quote @Dowser
I'm sure there are many people who think like we are @Dustballs, but can imagine they are not airing their opinion on here given the vitriol you get for it.

It really is shocking how spiteful people are, quick to judge me, to claim how stupid I am, how uneducated I am. All this sneering. Luckily I don't give a hoot, I'm entitled to my opinion.

Why should we insisting on vaccinations for the young and healthy population for whom the risk is less than 1%?

Exactly. The younger/less at risk people can get natural immunity from the disease and still contribute to herd immunity.

[quote Dowser]@neron
I’m glad it’s not just me who gives a more measured approach to the euphoria surrounding the discovery ofa vaccine

I wish I’d saved the quote from one of the inventors of one of our vaccines
Who said
I always hold my breath till the first 30 million have been vaccinated

Don’t blame him. I’m still concerned for the two women who contracted transverse myelitis while participating in the Astra Zeneca tests

Such an awful paralysing illness. Not stable either.
It can flare up and leave you with less bodily function each time.

Not wishing to scare anyone.
Thousands/ millions even will hopefully be fine but I would hate to be one of the people with such a severe reaction...if it is related of course

It could just be coincidence
Two friends have it.their lives now compared to before are unrecognisable[/quote]
Just looked at some of your past posts out of interest. Lo and behold there you were back in 2015 warning against taking the MMR vaccine due to supposed terrible consequences. So no surprise really you're against this one and are looking for ways to scare people out of taking it. I think we all know that no vaccine is risk free, but then neither is getting Covid by a far longer shot.

I've lost two relatives from covid (or with it, they were both old, ill and weak so it's hard to be certain if that was the cause of death, especially as one had late stage cancer). However, it makes no sense to shut down the country and decimate the economy for a virus which is only deadly to the old and the sick.

The lockdown is predicted to kill at least twice as many people as the virus so opening things up makes much more sense, shielding only those who are vulnerable without putting us all under ridiculous restrictions.

There's no real evidence lockdowns work in the short term and simple logic tells you they cannot work in the longterm. They were only put in place to protect the health service which is at greater risk from the destruction of the economy.

A vaccine might work but there's no guarantee. Vaccines against covid viruses have been a failure in the past and the flu vaccine only has a 50% average success rate. Flu is very equivalent in death rate to covid and yet no-one thinks the world should completely change to deal with it.

Why would the governments of the world pursue a disastrous, near suicidal policy? Stupidity would be my guess. I don't buy the conspiracy theories although the determination to stick with something so ruinous is certainly strange.

The most comprehensive study so far on efficacy of lockdown published in the last few days.

Spoiler: lockdowns make no difference to overall mortality

That’s the issue for me on all of this. These measures aren’t based on any evidence, it’s just being seen to do something

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full

@Alexafrost

There's no real evidence lockdowns work in the short term and simple logic tells you they cannot work in the longterm. They were only put in place to protect the health service which is at greater risk from the destruction of the economy.

A vaccine might work but there's no guarantee. Vaccines against covid viruses have been a failure in the past and the flu vaccine only has a 50% average success rate. Flu is very equivalent in death rate to covid and yet no-one thinks the world should completely change to deal with it.

Why would the governments of the world pursue a disastrous, near suicidal policy? Stupidity would be my guess. I don't buy the conspiracy theories although the determination to stick with something so ruinous is certainly strange.

Have you not seen the results of the vaccine trials that have been made public over the past few weeks? Also, while it is legitimate to criticise politicians, the idea that they are just stupid when it comes to economic decisions is totally absurd. Unless of course you do actually believe in the conspiracy theories...

However, it makes no sense to shut down the country and decimate the economy for a virus which is only deadly to the old and the sick.

It's really not only deadly to the old and sick. Last year my Ddad died in a care home. He died from an infection but actually it was terminal cancer that killed him. And if it had been this year he would have almost certainly died if he had covid 19. But I know 2 people who died, 1 in their 40s and 1 in their 60s. Both worked full time and had no serious health issues. The 48 year old left 2 tween/teen children. A hospital dr on the radio recently was nearly in tears describing a teenager saying goodbye to their dying mum over facetime. The death toll has admittedly been mainly older people but that's certainly not to say it's not deadly to anyone else. And a lot of MN think over 60 is old, when in fact a 60 year old might well live for another 20-30 years.

But @Fizbosshoes it really is mainly the elderly that are dying. Yes, there is the occasional death of a younger, otherwise healthy person and yes, it is tragic but there are also random sepsis/flu/heart failure deaths in otherwise healthy younger, people all the time - they just aren’t plastered all over the news.

I’m just going to link to this again Infection fatality rate by age

It was dystopian back in April, and more than slightly.

Honestly - imagine 12 months ago being told the bald facts about this virus in terms of CFRs and who is overwhelmingly at risk (in general) and then being told about the conditions that people the world over are living under in response to it. Imagine being told of the South Australia debacle.

Would you have believed it?

But again even if it’s the over 80s who mainly die they will often die receiving care in hospital and therefore risk swamping the NHS.

That’s the issue for me on all of this. These measures aren’t based on any evidence, it’s just being seen to do something

Yes this.

And all this shrieking about masks over in the USA - the political poison it has unleashed. Why is the question not "Why is the general public so unhealthy in the USA and what can we do to improve this so that their chances of serious illness are much much smaller"?

@Alexafrost

There's no real evidence lockdowns work in the short term and simple logic tells you they cannot work in the longterm. They were only put in place to protect the health service which is at greater risk from the destruction of the economy.

A vaccine might work but there's no guarantee. Vaccines against covid viruses have been a failure in the past and the flu vaccine only has a 50% average success rate. Flu is very equivalent in death rate to covid and yet no-one thinks the world should completely change to deal with it.

Why would the governments of the world pursue a disastrous, near suicidal policy? Stupidity would be my guess. I don't buy the conspiracy theories although the determination to stick with something so ruinous is certainly strange.

Erm, Victoria, Australia.

On the same day in August, Victoria had equal cases to the UK per day (742).

After Victorian lockdown - ZERO cases per day for the past 15. Uk >20k daily cases.

Of course proper lockdowns work. The problem is half arsed tiered lockdowns. They DO not work

I think it’s dystopian to hear people dismiss the virus as only deadline to the old (over 60? 70?) and sick as if these people’s lives do not matter. These are the same people who claim they have mental health problems from not being able to go to the shopping malls.

We have got to learn to live with this virus, like we did everything else.
We cannot put young and old lives on hold waiting for a knight on a white charger to rescue us.
Completely agree. As an English teacher who every year teaches dystopian literature-completely agree about lessons not being learned from literature. Fahrenheit 451 anyone? ( Totally recommend that btw -usage of language is exquisite and the message is stark and relevant.)

They're all in this together

To be fair, we should have been expecting all this since WW2 at least, if not earlier. We're being run around like sheep by psychopaths. Read your Bibles people, it's all in there.

@Mimishimi Can you elaborate a little?

Maybe you'd like to look at Australia @Whitechocolatemarshmallow. Its an example of how it can work with more decisive Govt leadership, efficient tracing and transparent covid plans/daily stats.
We lived through months of stage4 lockdown in Vic it was also winter so cold/dark/raining and in miserable isolation..we got stuck down there though a dream new job which was eventually canned with covid anyway. Im a single parent& lost my savings(&almost my sanity) trying to keep us afloat and homeschool. Fortunately our govt had really generous covid payments that propped us up and relieved financial worry for a lot of people.
Used to look at the UK and jealously imagine long, light evenings and the warm beachy weather you were having throught he summer hols-everything open and seeing friends and family-im originally from Cornwall and mates were sending some pretty gorg pics to(unintentionally) taunt me.
Our internal borders closed in March- the3 of us had to spend 2 weeks in a hotel room under police and army guard -escorted from the room by police for 15 minutes of fresh air per day..just to be able to return to our home state(oh and we have to pay$5k for the privilege of this hotel prison stay(but can opt for instalments or exemption if on low income). It was that or try and make a life for ourselves somewhere we knew no-one and had nothing.
We are now through the other side back home in SE QLD and have virtually eliminated it Ozwide. Most states havent had any new cases in3+ weeks& domestic borders reopening.
Secured a decent job within the first 3 weeks of being back in QLD(started emailing resumes from quarantine hotel) and living in an oceanfront apartment courtesy of an old mate who manages the resort.
Everyone here is like "covid, what covid" -no-one knows anyone who's had it thankfully. Im pinching myself that we got through it all ok, the kids are pretty much unscathed and just happy to be back. Just hanging out at the beach with mates again and having a beer feels like heaven.
So yeah would obviously not gone through any of that for many reasons but that the country is where it is through the vast majority just getting on with it here, well we're we're reaping the rewards of persistance and tenacity..Bring on the biggest and best Xmas!! Conspiracy theorists need to look this way.

The UK’s been more than slightly dystopian for over 40 years so same old, same old really.

@Mimishimi

They're all in this together

To be fair, we should have been expecting all this since WW2 at least, if not earlier. We're being run around like sheep by psychopaths. Read your Bibles people, it's all in there.

Do you mean that bit where we all have to have the mark or the number of the beast on us if we want to buy or sell things?!

Agree, op. I've been getting quite scared by this for some time now. Johnson didn't dismiss the idea of a 'freedom pass' when questioned about it this evening. I think we know where this is going.

In all honesty, I think that part of the problem is that many people are actually enjoying this. They're enjoying not having freedom, not having to think for themselves. The fervour around the government 'allowing' Christmas proved this. It seemed as though lots of people didn't want to make that decision and were thrilled when someone else made it for them.