Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

Watch the movie called 'Contagion' - its eerily similar!!

@MercyBooth

It is all just a way to get people spending money, while superficially making things look virus-free, when in reality the virus doesn't look at a certificate and stay away from a host

And yet people seem to think that the virus can target a wedding ring like a bullseye as only single people are allowed to bubble with another household.

There are people on here who haven't worn any rings since March as they just know they will most definitely catch Covid from them

YANBU to feel that things are slightly dystopian now, but YABU if you really think this pandemic is part of some grand master plan to control the masses. Sometimes extreme situations call for extreme measures, and I think a pandemic falls into that category. It's horrid, but without taking measures to slow the R rate down there would be far more deaths. We are much luckier than those who lived (or died) during the 1918 pandemic (and also those who fought in the trenches during that war - that must have been truly hellish). I'm grateful that modern conveniences and technology make the restrictions a bit easier to bear, and that modern medicine looks likely to end this pandemic with vaccines. I'm bored and slightly depressed about getting made redundant from a job I enjoyed, but am hopeful that by spring we will have turned a corner.

@Jourdain11

*"Gingernaut
Now???

It's been like some dystopian nightmare from March.

Every time I walked across a train station concourse and saw every shop shut, all the signboards displaying ads relating to key workers or Covid-19 and the station announcements thanking key workers and telling all non essential travellers to stay home and let the key workers travel, it felt like some weird dystopian world where those who worked were valued and people who didn't/couldn't were facing restrictions.

You're only getting that vibe now????

Do you ever get that thing where you imagine yourself 1 year ago seeing the future as it is now, and realise that your past self would be like, "what the actual fuck?"

I feel like I explained that poorly...!"*

Have you seen this?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=2KO49YXQRPY

My problem is that since the over-exaggerated graphs incident I do not trust Johnson, Vallance or Whitty any more. I dont take at face value anything they say now and I probably never will.

Yes, I think its dystopian when the government deliberately present false information to scare the population

The big difference between contagion and this.....

In contagion once you had the vaccine you got a wrist band and were free to live your life

I’ve heard one person in a media interview say that even if you have the vaccine you still have to distance and wear a mask because you might possibly transmit it to someone who is not until heard immunity levels are reached

Given that the vaccine is not compulsory and based on polls, I don’t think we will reach 60-80 percent vaccination so where do we go fro. There

Personally I’d say if you don’t get the vaccine on your own head be it. We will treat you if we have space but we will bump you from the icu bed (in the unlikely event you end up there) if it’s needed for something else.

@TransplantedScouser

The big difference between contagion and this.....

In contagion once you had the vaccine you got a wrist band and were free to live your life

I’ve heard one person in a media interview say that even if you have the vaccine you still have to distance and wear a mask because you might possibly transmit it to someone who is not until heard immunity levels are reached

Given that the vaccine is not compulsory and based on polls, I don’t think we will reach 60-80 percent vaccination so where do we go fro. There

Personally I’d say if you don’t get the vaccine on your own head be it. We will treat you if we have space but we will bump you from the icu bed (in the unlikely event you end up there) if it’s needed for something else.

I agree

Why should those who have been vaccinated still have to comply with all the shite to avoid people who have chosen not to get the vaccine being infected.

@BonnieDundee

My problem is that since the over-exaggerated graphs incident I do not trust Johnson, Vallance or Whitty any more. I dont take at face value anything they say now and I probably never will.

Yes, I think its dystopian when the government deliberately present false information to scare the population

I agree on the government figures and SAGE in general. Nothing they have forecast has come to pass. And then they say it wasn’t a prediction. What was it then? Pulled out their arse?

There are either MASSIVE levels of incompetence across multiple government departments, agencies and academic institutes..... OR there’s been a deliberate attempt to deceive with false statistics.

Obviously we don’t know who anyone is on MN but what @straighttalker doesn’t ring as untrue at all to me. I had thought the situation was that better treatments meant that more people avoided ICU but that those who ended up there had worse outcomes and died quite quickly. That is in line with what she says.

How long that terrible situation justifies the current severe restrictions on civil liberties for is the question really. And it being a criminal offence to leave my local area or enter another private dwelling is a severe restriction on liberty, whether it’s justified or not. For a few more months it probably is justifiable. Much more than that probably not. There comes a point where you have to consider whether the measures are proportionate or not.

Let’s hope the vaccine is rolled out soon and helps.

Yes it's fucking dystopian, it was in March and it is now. I saw this coming early, stocked up on food in Feb, didn't bother posting much on MN when everyone was scoffing at the idea of a second wave and another lockdown, because it was blatantly obvious it would happen but people were getting strafed for saying so.

The freedom pass idea is madness, utterly terrifying that we are even discussing it as a concept. Why are more people not up in arms about this crap?

I can't even believe I live in this world. I'm currently studying how fascism and authoritarian governments begin, (for my OU course) and it's intensely sobering reading. I feel slightly less alone after reading this thread but it's still baffling what has happened to this country in such a short time. They way people who don't agree with the government line are sneered at and shut down, the way people parrot stuff like 'following the science' and so on. It's all just meaningless now.

Fuck me I just want to wake up in 1990 and be a kid again. I'd live those years extra hard, if I knew what was coming down the line at me.

Apparently child abuse is the newest tool against Covid

twitter.com/BVDBABY/status/1330249223682613249?s=20

@RhubarbTea i have TOTP 1990 on now. I was 17 then I completely get you.

'Freedom pass' - FFS. I don't think that could even come about, the sheer amount of testing involved (alongside vaccinations!) will be impossible, and how long would a negative test result stand? One day and you could be positive! Utter rubbish and sounds like more Moonshot crap.

'Proof of vaccination' - this is a slippery slope and one we should not be going down. What other 'proofs' will be necessary in the future?

I've been pro lockdown and gone along with everything rule-wise up till now but this sort of crap is very worrying, especially the way it's affecting people mentally. Covid will one day be long gone but our society is changing in ways that we will live to regret.

Fucking hell

Have I stumbled onto a David Icke forum instead of MN?
Ah well just let the old people die ay.
All these 70/80 year olds who up until covid were fine. Don't let them in the hospitals just leave them to suffocate at home alone.
Fuck it. They're old anyway, right?

Absolutely disgraceful and all of the alternatives I've read on here are as sensible as some of the theories.

In my trust we are seeing a large spike of 30s/40s with no comorbidities in ITU.
And if they do have any it is diabetes.
Best just leave all the diabetics to suffocate at home alone too as they have underlying health issues and would die anyway?

The experts of mumsnet appear to think that with covid you either get a mild cough or die.
There's no inbetween.
There are many stages that require hospital support and they're people of ALL ages.
Theyll probably survive but they need the NHS.
If things were left to sort themselves out the NHS would be overrun. Where I work already is.
Then there would be no room for people who have accidents/cardiac arrests/ stabbings
Because all of those things still happen.

The stupidity and blinkers on here is astonishing.

Um, I don't know where you're getting that from. I have RTFT and I didn't notice anyone saying "let people suffocate at home and die". I think most people accept the need for restrictions. What is being said is that the idea of blindly accepting "one party state" type laws (i.e. "freedom pass") is worrying. That's got absolutely nothing to do with overwhelming the NHS. Not least because it's a stupid idea and would only encourage people to be irresponsible!

If you just want to be angry, go ahead. But at least find an appropriate thread to do it on!

Keep 2m distancing. Keep washing hands. Remember coughs and sneezes spread diseases. Have mask only shopping hours in supermarkets but make certain times where masks aren't mandatory. Open businesses for longer to have less bottlenecks of queuing and to have fewer people in at a time. Keep windows open on public transport. Encourage people to risk assess their own choices about minimising catching covid. If businesses wish to reopen, let them. If consumers wish to go to them, let them. Prioritise ring fencing care homes making sure that the end goal is to allow family meetings again, not to just seal the residents away inside.

Stillbirths, suicides, domestic violence. These are all on the rise; consequences of lockdown. In Australia four newborns died as they couldn't be airlifted for surgery due to lockdown, something which was standard before. www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/oct/21/utterly-unacceptable-deaths-of-four-babies-at-adelaide-hospital-prompt-call-for-inquiry

The groupthink around lockdown is quite something. The vitriol for those who raise legitimate concerns about what some of the measures are doing to our freedoms is also quite something.

@TransplantedScouser

The big difference between contagion and this.....

In contagion once you had the vaccine you got a wrist band and were free to live your life

I’ve heard one person in a media interview say that even if you have the vaccine you still have to distance and wear a mask because you might possibly transmit it to someone who is not until heard immunity levels are reached

Given that the vaccine is not compulsory and based on polls, I don’t think we will reach 60-80 percent vaccination so where do we go fro. There

Personally I’d say if you don’t get the vaccine on your own head be it. We will treat you if we have space but we will bump you from the icu bed (in the unlikely event you end up there) if it’s needed for something else.

This is going to be a huge problem. Even the very well meaning will not continue to be completely vigilant with social distancing and hand washing when they and everyone they love has been vaccinated. And quite frankly, why should they?

So if the current thinking is true and the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, the unvaccinated will be at much greater risk than now because it will be allowed to spread like wildfire.

@Carrotcakeforbreakfast

In my trust we are seeing a large spike of 30s/40s with no comorbidities in ITU. And if they do have any it is diabetes. Best just leave all the diabetics to suffocate at home alone too as they have underlying health issues and would die anyway?

The experts of mumsnet appear to think that with covid you either get a mild cough or die.
There's no inbetween.
There are many stages that require hospital support and they're people of ALL ages.
Theyll probably survive but they need the NHS.
If things were left to sort themselves out the NHS would be overrun. Where I work already is.
Then there would be no room for people who have accidents/cardiac arrests/ stabbings
Because all of those things still happen.

The stupidity and blinkers on here is astonishing.

Diabetes has been long known to be a huge risk factor for poor Covid outcomes.

And is a great example of how these current measures don’t actually fix the problem

I could equally say to you, why hasn’t the government done something about the entirely reversible diabetes (T2) status of a huge proportion of the country and instead forced blunt restrictions on everyone rather than just those at risk?

So the government could have done something to actually reverse the lifestyle issue of T2 diabetes...put draconian measures on those people to stop them eating crap, get some exercise etc. and get themselves off the risky category. You can improve your metabolic health in 21 days, if you have the right information and actually do it

But instead, healthy people have had all their rights taken away. I would call that stupid and blinkered.

Diabetes already kills 24,000 people a year in the UK.and it’s rising fast. I don’t know how you can even make our it’s not a problem? But anyway, that’s not the point, the point is the problem of diabetes is not solved by lockdown, it’s solved by treating diabetes. Properly.

Imagine if the government had put the same effort into persuading people to change behaviours in order to reduce obesity, poor fitnesses levels, diabetes..... the country would be in a far better place. Instead lockdown has encouraged increased drinking, comfort eating, reduced fitness and mobility (including the elderly) Great way to keep people’safe’.

@Worldgonecrazy

Imagine if the government had put the same effort into persuading people to change behaviours in order to reduce obesity, poor fitnesses levels, diabetes..... the country would be in a far better place. Instead lockdown has encouraged increased drinking, comfort eating, reduced fitness and mobility (including the elderly) Great way to keep people’safe’.

When the government did the very first press conferences about the virus, they listed the risk factors - over 70, lung conditions etc. My husband missed it, so I looked up the details on the government website. It had that exact same list, in the exact same order, but also included obesity. They hadn't read that out on tv - that was their ridiculous, avoidant attitude from literally day 1.

hamstersarse
Absolutely. The clichéd response of the 'so you don't CARE if old people DIE' type is actually stifling debate on very real measures that could improve not only quantity but also quality of life' (albeit I accept that strong public health measures should have been looked at years ago, not just because of Covid). It's like trying to debate with a toddler though.

But everyone is glossing over the fact that okay it is older people who die
But they're are many, many people currently requiring intervention on ITU who are not old. Do not have comorbidities etc
That would still be the case if we just shielded the old and vulnerable and let the rest of society crack on.
In fact those numbers would be far worse
That alone would make the NHS collapse along with education and all other vital services.
Hospitality would go under even more due to staffing.
It isn't as simple as young people get a cough old people die.
The big middle picture people seem to be entirely ignoring.

But carry on and split hairs.
The collective MN know better as always.

@Worldgonecrazy

Imagine if the government had put the same effort into persuading people to change behaviours in order to reduce obesity, poor fitnesses levels, diabetes..... the country would be in a far better place. Instead lockdown has encouraged increased drinking, comfort eating, reduced fitness and mobility (including the elderly) Great way to keep people’safe’.

The problem is, that in this country we now have such an avoidant attitude to the real health issue that is obesity. I'm not talking about carrying a bit of extra weight or being a bit plump, but the real and very worrying health risks which are affecting so many people from a young age because of diet and inactivity.

My DH teaching Y6 last year had two pupils with Diabetes T2. This year teaching Y5 has one.

I find the man incredibly irritating, but Tom Watson is a very good example of someone who with intense measures was able to lose a lot of weight, reverse his T2 Diabetes and improve his health drastically. And in his book he explains very clearly that he didn't have to starve or anything in order to do that.

I do not want to fat shame or put anyone down, but the fact is in this country that we have many people with (avoidably) poor health because of diet and lifestyle. And that is an issue and yes, it is a pressure on the health system.