Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

Not a bot, but there was really no point posting back in March and April when people were shouting at each other for sitting on benches and eating crisps.
So I spent as much time as possible wandering for hours outdoors and honing my peeing in outdoor places technique rather than reading the misery that was on here.
There seems a bit more balance these days.

@SufferingFromLongLockdown

Not a bot, but there was really no point posting back in March and April when people were shouting at each other for sitting on benches and eating crisps. So I spent as much time as possible wandering for hours outdoors and honing my peeing in outdoor places technique rather than reading the misery that was on here. There seems a bit more balance these days.

I wasn’t here then, I can’t imagine what it was like, it’s bad enough now.

I can’t master outdoor peeing! I live in London so there’s a camera everywhere though.

@hamstersarse That makes so much sense!

Couple of other questions

A lot of posts on MN confuse me, like there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance around

So, those on this thread who are concerned about the dystopia

Do you have the app?

Would you get tested with no symptoms?

Are you involved in any studies?

I know the logical answer to all of those is no, but like I say, cognitive dissonance abounds here.

Apparently, the rest of the world needs a vaccine to get rid of covid but the Chinese, who are out and about as usual now, have managed without one!

The Chinese have been vaccinating their population for months. They started with the army.

No I don't have the app. I am considering it though as I have a spare phone.

No I wouldn't get tested. Possibly not even with symptoms. Certainly not in this period of restrictions when I've seen no one to pass it on to, so there'd be no necessity to let anyone know.

Yes - studies - I have downloaded the Zoe app. I've gained a lot of respect for it and the person co-ordinating the project. I'm happy to contribute to the bank of knowledge it's gathering.
I've also filled in a survey for a study by one of the universities that was tracking mental health outcomes of issues surrounding the virus and lockdown. It was weekly from march and is now monthly.

@SufferingFromLongLockdown

No I don't have the app. I am considering it though as I have a spare phone.

No I wouldn't get tested. Possibly not even with symptoms. Certainly not in this period of restrictions when I've seen no one to pass it on to, so there'd be no necessity to let anyone know.

Yes - studies - I have downloaded the Zoe app. I've gained a lot of respect for it and the person co-ordinating the project. I'm happy to contribute to the bank of knowledge it's gathering.
I've also filled in a survey for a study by one of the universities that was tracking mental health outcomes of issues surrounding the virus and lockdown. It was weekly from march and is now monthly.

You don’t t feel there’s a link to this and the dystopian future?

I’m open minded btw, I’m not one of those posters who will attack you for having a different opinion.

My friends with the Zoe app seem to get told cases are very high when they are not.

Acorn you've lost me with your question. Have you looked at Tim Spector's latest interview?

unherd.com/thepost/prof-tim-spector-lockdown-2-was-not-necessary/

[quote SufferingFromLongLockdown]Acorn you've lost me with your question. Have you looked at Tim Spector's latest interview?

unherd.com/thepost/prof-tim-spector-lockdown-2-was-not-necessary/[/quote]
I’ll watch that.

I meant the Serco app in my original question.

My feeling is that the more people go for the tech, the more we’ll end up with dystopia based on tech. The more we separate treatment from doctors, the more we play into the hands of tech, who use data to make money rather than to help with infection control.

So what happened to the discussion about Starmer wanting to fight people over trans rights? Where is Bunbury?

This thread is depressing.

I'm a doctor and I work in ICU. I'm working double the number of clinical hours I usually do because we are swamped with patients, and have stopped routine surgery, even cancer surgery to care for them because otherwise they'd be dying on the corridors or outside the hospital.

Numbers of ventilated patients only going down now (and not in a good way - unlike first wave, most covid patients are dying). We expect another wave in late Dec/Jan. Not a single one of these patients is over 80 - one commenter was right, this age group mostly die on wards and in care homes.
The patients who have died on my shifts in the past two weeks for example have been 42, 49, 55, 59, 62, 72 x 2. They had underlying health conditions - if you call high blood pressure, high BMIs (30-40), liking a bit of a drink or a heart attack 20 years ago serious underlying conditions. We usually don't.
This is the group of patients you're talking about blithely condemning when you say isolating the healthy young is 'too much'.

This isn't dystopia. You're not in prison. You're in your own homes FFS. The woman whingeing about not being able to bring her son out because he has had contact with a positive case? Grow up or grow a conscience.

You want it to be over? Fine, get the vaccine when it's available.

Agreed OP. It's been dystopian from the start, I'm very worried about the removal of our civil liberties. Including the right to peacefully protest. But if it goes on for much longer that's exactly what we'll have to do.

You're not in prison. You're in your own homes FFS.

And you're OK with house arrest? Cos I'm not.

@Wildswim

You're not in prison. You're in your own homes FFS.

And you're OK with house arrest? Cos I'm not.

@wildswim

If I were positive or had unprotected high-risk contact with a Covid positive individual, yeah, I'm ok with 'house arrest'.
Because I'm not neither criminally selfish or a sociopath.

“ I'm a doctor and I work in ICU. I'm working double the number of clinical hours I usually do because we are swamped with patients, and have stopped routine surgery, even cancer surgery to care for them because otherwise they'd be dying on the corridors or outside the hospital. ”

This being swamped happened to my dad many times in flu season. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but he’d also be horrified at the loss of rights and the way medical input has largely been ignored or not even requested in the handling of this. Do you not find it odd when you look at SAGE and SPI-B, I’d expect a higher level of medical experience.

Do you not find their ignorance about care homes odd? Do you feel it’s a choice between lockdown or nothing? Do you think it’s okay to spend billions of public money on things like the Serco app, the mass testing in Liverpool that the BMJ called to stop because it’s so pointless?

@Whitechocolatemarshmallow

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

Because it's better than dying.

Because being part of a society requires giving up rights.

We gave up the right to go where we pleased when we invented property rights

When we invented the car we gave up the right to wander idly on roads.

We gave up the right to wear swords.

Public defecation is frowned on too. So many things you are not allowed to do.

At least this is only for now. Once enough people are vaccinated we can relax.

"The virus is so deadly that it can take 5 days off over Christmas" File that one with

"how came I can't do people's nails but firefighters get to go to work. Does the virus not work on firefighters?"

And

"how come I can't go to bingo but kids can go to school?"

@straighttalker

This thread is depressing.

I'm a doctor and I work in ICU. I'm working double the number of clinical hours I usually do because we are swamped with patients, and have stopped routine surgery, even cancer surgery to care for them because otherwise they'd be dying on the corridors or outside the hospital.

Numbers of ventilated patients only going down now (and not in a good way - unlike first wave, most covid patients are dying). We expect another wave in late Dec/Jan. Not a single one of these patients is over 80 - one commenter was right, this age group mostly die on wards and in care homes.
The patients who have died on my shifts in the past two weeks for example have been 42, 49, 55, 59, 62, 72 x 2. They had underlying health conditions - if you call high blood pressure, high BMIs (30-40), liking a bit of a drink or a heart attack 20 years ago serious underlying conditions. We usually don't.
This is the group of patients you're talking about blithely condemning when you say isolating the healthy young is 'too much'.

This isn't dystopia. You're not in prison. You're in your own homes FFS. The woman whingeing about not being able to bring her son out because he has had contact with a positive case? Grow up or grow a conscience.

You want it to be over? Fine, get the vaccine when it's available.

I'm going full on conspiracy but I don't believe you are a doctor on ICU

Your story does not tally with the statistics

I do apologise if i am wrong, but something is off with your post.

Acorn, I think the Zoe app is very much something different than the serco app.
Please do whatcha the interview, it's very careful and balanced. In addition to tracking symptoms, they are planning on allowing people to feed in their own experiences of the vaccines and make the info readily available, which I see as a very good thing as there are no gatekeepers.. Unlike other methods of tracking vaccine reactions.

As for the serco app...pros and cons....as I said, it's a spare phone and would allow me to check in to places I don't feel comfortable leaving contact details... There are numerous reasons why i wouldn't, including no adherence to gdpr. I don't need to have blue tooth on.
Having driven over half an hour to a restaurant, we left without eating as they wouldn't allow us to be seated without the app, so I'm not one for an easy life at any cost.

I take your point on tech. My background is in tech. I'm massively frustrated that zoom is being sold as a good approximation of in person contact. It is not. I'm sceptical of reports now coming out telling us how good gaming is for our mental health. I've never seen it as either a bad or good thing, More a tool. But when we're being told gaming is good for our mental health when there's no viable alternative for our young people, then I get suspicious.

@straighttalker There must be regional variations, then. I'm in a high-Covid area (Tier 3 pre-Lockdown 2) and I have lots of friends who are hospital doctors. They are bored, because there's nobody in hospital and there's nothing to do. Even RTAs are down.

Suffering are you saying you’d use the spare phone to check in but potentially ignore contact from them?

No judgment, just curious.

When I’ve seen people using the app, someone was standing over them to ensure they filled in the form. Pretty sure the next step will be as per Wales - checking ID so information matches.

@hamstersarse

You are wrong. I accept your apology.

ICNARC is the only reliable data when its comes to ICU. When the next report comes out - which may or not receive mention in the media -you'll see that the death rate for patients who reach ICU is far greater than the first wave. We're in the thick of this at the moment.

This may be that more people are improving on the wards with steroid therapy and oxygen/non-invasive ventilation and we are now getting the ones that were never going to survive this virus because of an inherent susceptibility. Maybe. But they're not the over eighties that are being talked about here - this age group dies in significant numbers with covid but usually not on ICU.

The only sure way to not place yourself and your contacts in the non-responding group is prevention.

[quote StirUp]@straighttalker There must be regional variations, then. I'm in a high-Covid area (Tier 3 pre-Lockdown 2) and I have lots of friends who are hospital doctors. They are bored, because there's nobody in hospital and there's nothing to do. Even RTAs are down.[/quote]
Then there must indeed be regional variation because where I am the medical (respiratory) wards and ICUs are over-run. Colleagues in Wales and NI saying same. Don't know about London/South. Numbers only coming down here past 5 days.
The surgical/non-acute doctors that have not been redeployed are no doubt bored. Perhaps your friends are in that category. I know Paeds are quiet. O&G as normal.
Acute medicine and ICU taking hit.

To be fair - you could be anyone @straighttalker

I'm not convinced you're a doctor either. Maybe you are, maybe you're not.

The way this government is going about things. The stripping away of freedom and rights with no explanation, no proof, no facts. We literally have no say.

None of what you report (whether it's fiction or fact) makes this experience any less dystopian to me.

Anyone who thinks the U.K. is dystopian should try living in France, where you have to fill in a form every time you leave the house (even if you are only taking the dog for a pee)