Anyone else find this slightly dystopian now ?

[Whitechocolatemarshmallow]

We may be 'allowed' to see families etc. Over Christmas but should be expected to 'pay' for this with subsequent lockdowns, and hugging will be banned.

Now, there's talk of a 'freedom pass' for people who test negative twice a week to allow them to live a more normal life, which they will be able to present should they be stopped and questioned.

What's coming next, having to show proof of vaccination status ?
I'm no conspiracy theorist and i'm fully aware that Covid is real.

Why are we willing to give up our old lives like this ?

@Onacleardayyoucansee

I think we need to do a lot more questioning.

I'm more concerned about the removal of human rights than the virus.

It's not helpful to call anyone with a different perspective a conspiracy theorist.
If you are not going along with the media / government, you are the mad one, discredited and a conspiracy theorist.

I think it is going to be impossible now for things to go back to the way they were.
So many people have already lost so much.
People talk about lives being more important than the economy, but the economy is lives.
Also, what makes a life worth living?

I don't know what the answers are, but I feel that what is being rolled out is not it.

I agree with you. The automatic response to anyone who questions anything seems to be to label the person a conspiracist or Covid denier anti vaxxer or whatever. We should be able to question things and there is nothing wrong with not just blithely wandering into everything and accepting automatically that every decision made must be a good one. It doesn't mean that the person is a nutter or conspiracy theorist and it doesn't mean they have all the answers themselves either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having an open mind and having grown up discussions about things without resorting to name calling. Name calling just cheapens anything a person's got to say. I say this as a non nutter/antivaxxer/conspirator/Covid denier etc. I'm certain there are no clear cut easy decisions in any of this but scrutiny should be ok and not automatically vilified.

@3littlewords

I don't get this idea thats its suddenly ok to have 5 "days off" over Christmas if its safe to mix households on Christmas day then its safe every other day of the year

Well it's not safe, but people will do it anyway so they are trying to work around that

But why automatically assume that those of us who largely agree with current rules in place are not questioning ? I follow the news and consider myself relatively informed. I do listen to the experts, scientists, medical professionals as they know better than me. That doesn’t mean I am a sheep who blindly follow.

The level of paranoia on this thread scares me more than anything the government is doing!

I've started reading more dystopian novels to see what happens next.

@PowerslidePanda, bots?

This is the UK - we have dystopia lite.

@AcornAutumn

It’s my opinion

It really would be better to state it as your opinion then, as opposed to presenting it as though it is something that will definitely happen.

You have no idea how much I want to be wrong

We'll know soon enough I guess.

@Pollynextdoor

But why automatically assume that those of us who largely agree with current rules in place are not questioning ? I follow the news and consider myself relatively informed. I do listen to the experts, scientists, medical professionals as they know better than me. That doesn’t mean I am a sheep who blindly follow.

Because they get an ego boost from thinking of themselves as the clear ones who can't be duped and have it all figured out.

Because they get an ego boost from thinking of themselves as the clear ones who can't be duped and have it all figured out

'Clever' ones even, not 'clear'.

@Jaxhog

By the way, all the people who are denying the risk of easing the rules for Christmas, were the same people denying there would be a second wave.

Personally, I'd rather give up some freedom temporarily if it will create a safer place for all of us.

This.

We know a 33 year old guy with no underlying health problems that died this weekend.

He was in the gym 10 days ago

*Why is it that anyone questioning things is always asked what their solution is?

Is it not possible to question things without having a solution?*

This. It's not my job to have a solution but I'm allowed to question a shitty job. If I went to a restaurant and complained a dish tasted bad it wouldn't be my job to find a solution or fix it. If a builder redoes my bathroom and the bath leaks it's not my job to find a solution to it, they should've done better in the first place. This is the governments job - to deal with things like this - I'm allowed to criticise problems with how they're doing they're job without having a perfect solution to it, because get what, the solutions aren't my job but the problems bloody well do negatively affect me so I'm gonna complain about it!

I wouldn't mind if there was compelling evidence that these measures are needed.

THe reality is most of the measures are based on nothing more than 'being seen to do something' and panic, perhaps to disguise the general incompetence and errors they made (such as the example given above where SAGE didn't even check what was going on in care homes - much easier to blame (healthy) people for not social distancing right?

We are nearly 9 months into this and the dystopic element for me is the total lack of scientific debate and the misleading statistics that are used to instill fear into people. Their own watchdog has warned that they use misleading statistics. They deliberately omit data that would give people a truer picture (e.g. T Cell immunity)

Hancock has a naturally arrogant way, very over confident about what he says, never questions his black and white thinking, and fires off down a track and is one of those people who seems incapable of reflection, further analysis and most certainly he is not capable of ever-changing course, even when it is the right thing to do. He is a big distaster for this type of crisis and definitely doesn't help this dystopian track.

*I think we need to do a lot more questioning.

I'm more concerned about the removal of human rights than the virus.

It's not helpful to call anyone with a different perspective a conspiracy theorist.
If you are not going along with the media / government, you are the mad one, discredited and a conspiracy theorist.

I think it is going to be impossible now for things to go back to the way they were.
So many people have already lost so much.
People talk about lives being more important than the economy, but the economy is lives.
Also, what makes a life worth living?

I don't know what the answers are, but I feel that what is being rolled out is not it.*

This with bells on. I'm not a covid denier or a conspiracy theorist. I don't think this virus was created as a government ploy to control us all. However I do think that the government are 'enjoying' (for lack of a better word) having so much control over people, people being so afraid and people being willing to report their neighbours for not following the 'rules'.

Historically most totlaitarian states have been born out of real tragedy/disaster/fear of something. The fear is absolutely justifiable, but time and time again we've seen this fear taken advantage of to pit people against each other, encourage them to report on each other (snitching culture regarding 'the rules' is Atleast as old as medieval England) and introduce more controls and limits on people's lives and freedoms.

Ever heard of the frog in hot water analogy? If you drop a frog in hot water it'll jump straight out because it recognises the danger. However if you put a frog into cold water and slowly warm it up to the same point of being hot it'll stay in there because it's comfortable and doesn't notice the gradual change. The same goes with people and rights and freedoms being taken away. Do it in one go and people will rebel but do it gradually, slowly, people will think of it as 'just one more thing' over and over again. I understand some freedoms need to sadly be curtailed to save lives but we need to be careful to not concede too many and t demand them back the very second it's plausible.

@OhReallyThen

*I think we need to do a lot more questioning.

I'm more concerned about the removal of human rights than the virus.

It's not helpful to call anyone with a different perspective a conspiracy theorist.
If you are not going along with the media / government, you are the mad one, discredited and a conspiracy theorist.

I think it is going to be impossible now for things to go back to the way they were.
So many people have already lost so much.
People talk about lives being more important than the economy, but the economy is lives.
Also, what makes a life worth living?

I don't know what the answers are, but I feel that what is being rolled out is not it.*

This with bells on. I'm not a covid denier or a conspiracy theorist. I don't think this virus was created as a government ploy to control us all. However I do think that the government are 'enjoying' (for lack of a better word) having so much control over people, people being so afraid and people being willing to report their neighbours for not following the 'rules'.

Historically most totlaitarian states have been born out of real tragedy/disaster/fear of something. The fear is absolutely justifiable, but time and time again we've seen this fear taken advantage of to pit people against each other, encourage them to report on each other (snitching culture regarding 'the rules' is Atleast as old as medieval England) and introduce more controls and limits on people's lives and freedoms.

Ever heard of the frog in hot water analogy? If you drop a frog in hot water it'll jump straight out because it recognises the danger. However if you put a frog into cold water and slowly warm it up to the same point of being hot it'll stay in there because it's comfortable and doesn't notice the gradual change. The same goes with people and rights and freedoms being taken away. Do it in one go and people will rebel but do it gradually, slowly, people will think of it as 'just one more thing' over and over again. I understand some freedoms need to sadly be curtailed to save lives but we need to be careful to not concede too many and t demand them back the very second it's plausible.

@OhReallyThen

Ever heard of the frog in hot water analogy? If you drop a frog in hot water it'll jump straight out because it recognises the danger. However if you put a frog into cold water and slowly warm it up to the same point of being hot it'll stay in there because it's comfortable and doesn't notice the gradual change

Yes I've heard it (or rather seen online) many times from paranoid people and conspiracy theorists since the pandemic began. People always seem to write it as though they imagine they are being very original in their attempt to 'wake up' the 'sheeple'.

There are lots of studies that show that societies who have more infectious disease prevalent in the population have more support for authoritarian systems (and the absence of infectious disease in the West, on the flip side, has allowed us to become more libertarian)

So there is some pre-existing reason why authoritarianism is widely accepted right now.

Also at an individual level, there will also be a lot of people who have the personality type that really needs some level of control amongst the chaos. These are people who are high in the 'orderliness' part of conscientiousness.

You see it everywhere in this situation - orderly people are enamoured by their own willpower. So you'll hear people saying "just get through it" "it's not a lot to ask" i.e. put your willpower in place and keep things orderly amongst the chaos.

People who aren't so high in orderliness (part of conscientiousness) can tolerate more chaos and that is possibly why the twain will never meet. Some people can tolerate chaos better than others. I haven't seen their results but am trained to do Big 5 personality assessments and the members of SAGE I have seen appear very high in orderliness (Chris Whitty in particular). The guy from Sweden is definitely less so, for example, hence one obvious difference in the way policy has been formulated.

Bit of a waffle, but basically infectious disease does things to the way societies are run, and amongst the population there will be a high number of people crying out to sooth their orderliness with strict rules. But, that is why the science is so important, we have to be delivering good reasoned science and not succumb to our natural (sometimes incorrect) preference to create some orderliness at any cost

@BlueBlancmange

I'm not paranoid or a conspiracy theorist at all. Nor do I think I'm original or waking up the 'sheeple' but it's a theory I've studied when studying history, sociology and psychology and very relevant to these times. It's also one that every academic I've ever worked with has stressed as an important one to consider whenever looking at governmental change. You conveniently cut off the parts where I said that I understand that measures are necessary and I absolutely get that covid is a threat, but we should absolutely be aware of the curtails to our freedoms and be demanding them back as soon as viable. That's not crazy, that's being wary of our future and ensure the prevention of us getting anywhere near a totalitarian state.

@BrokenBrit

I deeply despise this government and all they stand for. I also feel they have done a terrible job at managing every part of this pandemic. However this really isn’t some great ploy or dystopian novel. Lockdowns and vaccinations are pretty essential for controlling a novel virus. No way have the governments round the world collaborated to each crash their economies with lockdowns for the sheer hell of wanting to control their citizens in some way. Why would they do that? Also this government can’t even plan a single rule change without it getting leaked to the papers, do you really think that we have thousands of people secretly in on some dystopian plot? Pandemics do happen throughout history and with this one we may just be able to get through it by this time next year through science and rule following.

I totally agree with u i find it weird that people r making this be some sort of govemrent wanting to control is thing super annoying

Wow thats so interesting @hamstersarse - makes so much sense

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Those who are finding it dystopian now ... what would you have said to those who predicted this in March?

Not a lot, because I'm afraid I'm another who predicted it

Sadly, if those in authority are given more power, they'll always, always abuse it

I thought March to June was hideous and I'm still reeling. I feel slightly stupid for thinking it was a one off and we'd never again be prevented from meeting up with family, yet here we are.

Someone commented about people who thought there wouldn't be a second wave. Off course there would be. The first was squashed, we stayed locked down far too long into the good weather when we could have enjoyed the immune boosting benefits of summer and it's instead been pushed into winter when it's respiratory illness season anyway. We weren't just going to magically acquire immunity and it wasn't going to just vanish.

Why are more and more posters pasting huge amounts of previous said stuff in - and then barely saying anything of their own (other than “this is ace, I agree with bells on”)?

Dystopian?! It’s full on Zombie movie/ Years and Years. It’s a bit rubbish though. Definitely jumped the shark.

MN is currently full of bots. Lots of new posters posting conspiracy theories backing each other up normalising this weird thinking.

Am I the only one thinking that or am I making my own crazy conspiracy theory?

I'm not a bot. I've been here for over a decade under various names.

But why doesn't anyone with concerns report them?

[quote BlueBlancmange]@AcornAutumn

It’s my opinion

It really would be better to state it as your opinion then, as opposed to presenting it as though it is something that will definitely happen.

You have no idea how much I want to be wrong

We'll know soon enough I guess.[/quote]
Okay, Your Honour. In my opinion. ( a joke for fans of The Good Wife).

Seriously, I thought it was obvious it was my opinion.