Christmas needs to be cancelled.

[AlternativePerspective]

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The true spirit of Christmas for me, isn't commercial bollocks, it's spending time with people I love. Not delivering them takeout Xmas dinner from a distance. It ain't the food that makes Christmas. It's the company.'

Lovely.

Spoilt slightly by a virus that could kill the people you love.

Any virus could kill the people we love.pneumonia nearly did for me in my 20s!

YANBU I think by allowing bubbles for single people to continue, nobody should be left on their own at Christmas (unless they want to be). Yes people will inevitably break the rules if they prioritise getting together over the health of themselves and those around them, but hopefully these people will be in the minority and most people will be sensible. Whereas if they relax the rules then like you say we're likely to pay for it later and is it really worth it?

Well said @HotPatootiebootie

I am lucky in that I can wfh, live rurally, tend to enjoy the kinds of things that are covid-safe (long walks in isolated areas), have some family living with me, have good links to other family. But that's just me and it would be ignorant to think that everyone can, therefore, do as I do - because everyone has a whole host of different situations and preferences.

The cost of this pandemic is huge. Just because someone else might make a different priority call than me does not automatically make them selfish. Economially, this pandemic has been cruel. Mentally, this pandemic has been cruel. Physical heath has also been hit cruelly. Where you place the priority of those 3 competing elements will depend very much on your specific circumstances.

For me, the best we can hope for is that each person reviews their own circumstances and makes the best/safest choices they can, for themselves and their loved ones. "Saving granny" is a classic example: for some people isolating away from an elderly relative might make sense, because that relative is pretty fit and active with many years (hopefully) left and happy to be left alone. For others, "granny" may just have limited years left, not cope well left alone and would much prefer to take the risk and be with family.

Agree also that the government's handling has been the biggest load of hypocrytical shit-show I've ever seen. God help us if we don't get some grown ups back in positions of power soon - those criminally self-entred, arrogant fools are worse that nothing.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The true spirit of Christmas for me, isn't commercial bollocks, it's spending time with people I love. Not delivering them takeout Xmas dinner from a distance. It ain't the food that makes Christmas. It's the company.'

Lovely.

Spoilt slightly by a virus that could kill the people you love.

Very unlikely to, and my relatives are all entitled to make their own decisions!

People are treating elderly people like they aren't even humans.

Okay, so you think there’ll be ample drivers and other associates for trains available to run trains on Boxing Day? I presume you want all these trains to run on Xmas eve and Boxing Day with strict social distancing too? What is the obsession with trains? Does everyone who celebrates Christmas travel by train? Some families live a short distance apart, some people have cars, some people use the bus.

Maybe the govt should allow a limited relaxation at Christmas but with restrictions on travel. Just allowing a free for all isn't sensible is it. You worry about enough train drivers, well what about enough NHS staff in January? Have you thought about them?

Retirement*al
*
Well said !!!!!!

@AlternativePerspective

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

You do what you like for Christmas but for families with terminally ill loved ones who won’t be here next year then you don’t get to speak for them.

I totally agree with you OP. I understand when people have family members who are terminally ill - that is an exception. But the rest of us should do the best we can to follow the rules to try and get through this sooner rather than later. Judging by a lot of answers here there are lots of people who will be meeting people and mixing together regardless of the guidelines/rules/sense of duty or personal responsibility. Getting together at Christmas and mixing households will cause deaths. I would love find out the opinion of any one of those people later on in January or February where they have had a death in the family caused by the 'Christmas Get Together' and ask if they think it was worth it.

I quite agree with you, OP. People seem to have some sort of obsession about Christmas - it must be exactly the same as every other year, they must have all and sundry round to their house for excess eating and drinking and exchanging mostly unwanted gifts! All that will happen is infected children will pass it to their grandparents, and there we are, a huge spike of illness and death in January.

It makes no sense at all to open up the country for 5 days, only for lockdown to be re-established immediately afterwards. Let's get through this thing by observing the rules - why is it so difficult? Also, close schools and universities early and don't let them go back until at least mid-January.

We are spending Christmas with my mum, dad and brother this year, regardless of what is happening. My dad is terminally ill - it will either be his last Christmas, or we will be grieving.

However we are being sensible in the meantime:

1. both us and my parents are getting food shopping delivered
2. only going out for hospital appointments
3. if we need to go to the shop, we go early morning or very late when it’s quiet.
4. keep more than 2m apart from others
5. don’t see any other family - not even DHs family who we’re very close to (they totally understand and are supportive) (my parents don’t see anyone else either, and my brother has moved in with them)
6. I’ve delayed my DS starting nursery to reduce exposure

Hopefully dad will last and we will be able to have one last Christmas together 🙏

I think people can see family but they should be sensible about it - keep it minimal and have a low key christmas this year. Just be sensible and then hopefully the restrictions will be lifted more quickly in January.

I just could not imagine it. All pulling crackers round the table with Bing warbling in the background then people potentially hospital in January.

Ah well, they watched the Queen's speech together and had a lovely day, it's the chance they took!

My Christmases are always quiet anyway 🤷🏻‍♀️ just me, mum and dad. I’ve been wfh since March, go nowhere other than the shops (or previously, when allowed, to mum’s house or out for walks with people), and now we’re switching to food deliveries for the rest of the year. My DP is my biggest risk (supply teacher) but he’s only in 3 days a week which seems to help. It would be helpful if schools closed a week early so we can self-isolate for two weeks pre Christmas rather than one, but it’s better than nothing. People saying “just have a quiet Christmas” don’t seem to realise some of us do that anyway and would prefer to have a normal Christmas this year precisely because it’s quiet!

Our usual whole family get-together on Boxing Day is probably cancelled though - 13 of us including children - and postponed till it’s safer/vaccine/cases are low.

@AlternativePerspective how about piss off with your close the travel networks. My children's dad lives in a different area to me and has continued to see them throughout the year. There is no way I would keep them from him at Christmas.
During the last lockdown my sister attempted suicide, and was almost successful, because she couldn't cope. She needs to be with people at Christmas especially.
My nan has terminal cancer this will be her last Christmas why can't she enjoy it? Don't think she would sat in her bungalow by herself.
If you don't want to mix then don't but ley people in different situations make the decision themselves.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

I just could not imagine it. All pulling crackers round the table with Bing warbling in the background then people potentially hospital in January.

Ah well, they watched the Queen's speech together and had a lovely day, it's the chance they took!

Well prescisely. If they want to take that chance who are you to stop them?

@AcornAutumn

Trains might not run in your area on Boxing Day but they certainly do in London and the SE. How else do you think all those hordes of shoppers get to London to buy faux bargains in the sales? Not,to mention all the staff to serve them?

You’re wrong to use the phrase “cancel Christmas” - it’s a religious festival that will still be happening regardless whether or not you eat a turkey with a large group. We should be allowed to go to church if social distancing is possible.

However, big gatherings shouldn’t happen. The spike in numbers in January will be huge if everyone just throws caution to the wind.

I think single people should be allowed to meet family or friends, but if you’re already in a group you should stay at home; that’s what DH, DS and I will be doing.

@ancientgran

Okay, so you think there’ll be ample drivers and other associates for trains available to run trains on Boxing Day? I presume you want all these trains to run on Xmas eve and Boxing Day with strict social distancing too? What is the obsession with trains? Does everyone who celebrates Christmas travel by train? Some families live a short distance apart, some people have cars, some people use the bus.

Maybe the govt should allow a limited relaxation at Christmas but with restrictions on travel. Just allowing a free for all isn't sensible is it. You worry about enough train drivers, well what about enough NHS staff in January? Have you thought about them?

Lots of families don’t live near each other.

Re NHS in January. My late father was a doctor specialising in infectious diseases. I know all about it. The colleagues of his who were still in touch with have had a similar experience to bad flu seasons. That’s bloody awful - they call February morgue month - and they don’t see lockdown as an infection control measure, because, shocker, it isn’t.

I’m not “worried” about train drivers, I’m asking how you will get enough to work amd how you will manage distancing on the trains running in your proposed strict time frame.

and im all for a lockdown in January if needed. who does anything then anyway?

Well, there is a school of thought that saving your money come January will help families get through the double whammy of Brexit no deal in the midst of a pandemic. Not if the economy is fucked once more by another lockdown down though, purely so people can all get together and get pissed for a few days.

[quote Thecobwebsarewinning]@AcornAutumn

Trains might not run in your area on Boxing Day but they certainly do in London and the SE. How else do you think all those hordes of shoppers get to London to buy faux bargains in the sales? Not,to mention all the staff to serve them?[/quote]
I know, I’m a Londoner. We used to spend Xmas with friends outside London. A lot of the trains don’t run.

No absolutely we should not all be dashing all over the country to gather with relatives we see once a year.
Common sense needs to be applied so yes small family groups only ( obviously terminally ill should be with family) but we must accept it should not be encouraged for all.
I do not need to see in law's ( who I can't stand) and put 5 different school bubbles together in one room at Christmas along with 5 adults who have all had different contacts. This is madness is it not?
But having just widowed lives alone granny over as part of your bubble should be ok?
People need to be told the risk will not magically go at Christmas.
NHS really will be flooded in January if we start mixing on Christmas. Oh and what about NHS staff who WORK on Christmas? Can you imagine being an ICU nurse who has to work 13 hours Christmas day in full PPE knowing the rest of the nation is happily having Xmas lunch together and infecting each other with COVID19? Wow that will give them hope for January 2021 being fun at work?!?
Also more lockdown will effect economy and jobs. It's not worth it we need to stay in our bubbles over Christmas.

I think they need to start givi by practical advice instead of this ridiculous “gifting” of Christmas and freedoms people are going to take anyway. Our freedom of association and family life isn’t theirs to give!

How about being honest and saying “we know you’re going to do it anyway, this virus exists and is a killer so, well close the schools a bit early, if you are going to have a family Christmas isolate beforehand, keep social distanced. Allow independent shops to open that can prove to trading standards that they are Covid secure (screens, masks, 1 in one out etc.) allow pubs and restaurants full opening hours so we don’t get this ridiculous all kick out together approach, but ensure they are limited numbers and insist on social distancing security people being provided etc etc.

Practical advice would work far better than this utter shit show!

@Iamthewombat

Steady on, Oliver Cromwell!

Definitely no more bank holidays as we go away loads and it means it's more expensive to go with a bank holiday.

Doesn't really make a difference to me whether its locked down or not, though if schools shut I hope people keep their DC indoors but I suppose that is me thinking selfishly like most other people do.

I don't know why people have to be so irate its the sensible thing to do not to be driviving all over the country to see relatives.
Obviously if its someones last Christmas then you will want to be seeing them and I'm sure OP or anyone else wouldn't object to that but xmas as usual is just downright selfish and irresponsible and I'm fed up with being locked up because selfish people want to crowd the beaches all summer and spend xmas packed into shops and travelling all over the country.
One lockdown xmas isn't going to kill us.

I’ve developed a weird habit of reading dads old medical papers. If some posters here read them, they’d never leave the house.