Christmas needs to be cancelled.

[AlternativePerspective]

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

I despair.
We are so close to having an effective vaccine program rolled out.
Families who have someone with a terminal diagnosis of a life limiting illness should be an exception if that’s their choice.
Everyone else can wait a few months. But they won’t. And when the NHS is totally overwhelmed by the end of January, when A&E can’t help people in mental health crisis because they are overwhelmed with respiratory patients, when brain injured car crash victims have to be transferred to ICU beds hundreds of miles away from family, when planned cancer surgery grinds to a halt again because there are no post op ICC/HDU beds, then those who are clamouring for Christmas will be screeching the loudest about the useless NHS.

I agree. I won’t be able to see my family this Christmas as they are 400 miles away, and no matter what easing of the restrictions there is, I doubt we’ll be allowed to do that. I’ll be pretty (selfishly I know) furious if we have to lockdown all January to ‘pay for it’ especially since my job is at risk if the lockdown goes on much longer.

@HotSince63

The general public have lost all trust and faith in the government, the government have lost control.

They have to create the illusion that they are allowing something of a normal Christmas to go ahead, because for most people, a normal Christmas will go ahead regardless of 'the roolz'.

This in spades.

The first lockdown everybody I knew followed the rules. This one, nobody is. Why?

The government said that masks didn't work. Then they said they did.

The government said schools were safe. Then the stats show they are actually hot beds of infection.

The government says everybody has to follow the rules. Except it's own advisors and their families.

The government said we need to eat out to help out and then blamed us when infections rose.

The government is incompetent and nobody I know is following the rules. Sure, we are all mixing less but people are car sharing to work, car pooling in school runs etc. And why shouldn't? They sit next to those people all bloody day so why not share a car..... how is a bus with 20 strangers better?!

When I go to deliver therapy to the two SEN kids I help with of course I have a brew with their mum . She's been stuck inside for two weeks with two kids under 8 with special needs and not a jot of outside company or help apart from me. If it's Friday evening I might even have an alcoholic drink with her and commiserate about how hard it is.

The human cost is very real. And we need to remember that the virus has an incredibly high survival rate for an average person. I'm clinically extremely vulnerable and got yet another letter to shield but it's not happening. Yes I'm being careful but that's my choice.

Trains don’t usually run Boxing Day.
"We" all have cars and "we" can all drive - surely you realize that.

@BerryTown

As a DW of a critical care nurse, those of you saying you don't care if you catch Covid-19 are definitely being selfish. The NHS isn't there to pick up the pieces of you deliberately putting yourself at risk.

Presumably its not there for smokers, drinkers, obese people, sports people, children who enjoy throwing themselves off furniture?

The NHS is there for anyone who bloody well needs it.

Sorry but not going to leave my mum and sister alone at Christmas. I will be pulling my DS out of school and totally self isolating (including no shopping) for 2 weeks before.

I was thinking more of the great Alan Rickman....

You and me both. I think maybe we're not as well-educated as most of MN.

Nope nope nope

I've been very compliant all along, respected all restrictions in place since the beginning

I will be having Christmas with my parents, brother & nephews, no matter what.

This is where my line is.
I will, and have, happily obeyed all restrictions, I've been working from home since March, my kids aren't socialising outside of school, DH & I aren't socialising at all, but Christmas is something I won't give up

I agree with those saying it really just needs to be a 'sensible' Christmas.

We all know the virus is around and it hasn't gone anywhere. We need to carry on taking as many precautions as possible, and we all know what those are now (distancing where possible, hand cleaning etc).

Sadly my parents are overseas so everything I say will be what I 'would' do, but: personally I'd spend the day with those most vulnerable first. If I had siblings I'd see them later, or if everyone really wants to be together at once then keep that period briefer than usual.

@Shitzngiggles this is so true!

whats good for one family, might not be good for another. People are going to forget restrictions anyway so i think the government need to focus on making it safe instead of trying to ban mixing of households.

and im all for a lockdown in January if needed. who does anything then anyway?

BTW, im hopefully still planning on travel to Ireland for xmas but its always a low key affair . Ill be staying put in my sisters house and probably only venturing out for walks etc. no Christmas nights out like we always do but im happy to just chill with my family after a personally Shite year!

@ancientgran

Trains don’t usually run Boxing Day. It isn't a usual year though is it.

You can’t be serious? You think this is a good year to try and restrict all the public transport users to a one-day window? You can’t see any flaws in that plan?

I think they should set a target. "If we get to ### cases then you can have Christmas. Otherwise it will be treated like any other day and police will be breaking up your gatherings
Then maybe people will follow the rules a little better because there's still so many just doing whatever they please*

Police aren't going to be going into people's houses, breaking up gatherings!

The government knows people are going to make their own choices about Christmas, trying to control this would be impossible.

Because that will work?!

I'm restricted to the house, can't see family and when I walk to the shops there are mobs of secondary school kids loitering outside and roaming the streets. My local secondary school has 1000 pupils.

Lockdowns kick the can down the road as we saw with the last one.

They don't actually solve anything.

Schrodinger “ Neither. Because bubble is supposed to be with 1 other household, not 2, so one of you has a bubble with someone outside of you three.”

Yes.

So it’s okay for 82 year old mum with heart problems to only see one of her children for the duration of lockdown?

Bear on mind, I care for her and travel on public transport. My sister, in reality, sees no one because her support bubble lives miles away and she’s effectively isolating so she can see mum, or that’s what she’s hoping.

Also, if she spends Xmas with her bubble, she’s crashing another family’s Christmas.

'We normally host a big Christmas lunch for our families and whilst I would love it to go ahead it’s looking unlikely but I have ordered the usual two turkeys and if they can’t come to us DH will be dropping socially distanced cool bags of fully prepared and cooked turkey, stuffing, gravy, puddings etc at 3 houses on Christmas morning. If they can’t come to dinner then dinner will come to them!'

What a lovely plan. If only everyone would do the same, find their own individual ways to show they care, still see people while still protecting each other. The true spirit of Christmas instead of all the excess and commercial bollocks.

Whatever the government say, people are going to go ahead and see family. I think there needs to be a big public health awareness campaign - more about what people could/should do rather than what they can and can’t in law. The virus is invisible but it’s also a killer / in some cases long term health condition. If people could just act sensibly and limit their gatherings rather than wait for a 2 week lifting of restrictions so they can see every single family member and friend under the sun because ‘Christmas can’t be cancelled’ I wouldn’t be so concerned. It is just one day. The vaccines look promising so the end is in sight but we still need to get through these next few months and cases are high at the moment. I just wish people could just be a bit more sensible / thoughtful rather than single minded / selfish.

I feel like far too many people are happy to reap the rewards of a collective society (look at the support Corbyn got, for eg) but when it comes down to taking collective action for the benefit of others they won’t accept their individual liberties being suppressed.

It will be a very low key Christmas for us and that’s absolutely fine. We will see brighter days.

They are not cancelling Christmas just asking to have a simpler one and not see as many people. Think of the NHS that you all stood and clapped for, if we mingle with lots of people the rates shoot up in January. My daughter works as a nurse she says it’s going to be awful in January if people don’t listen, recently lots of ambulance staff were off with CV so less ambulances to get extremely ill people to hospital!
All you that saying you don’t care about the rules try phoning 999 and being told to wait ages or get your relative to hospital and when you get there lie in a corridor as it’s full. Keep to small bubbles once we all get the vaccine you can do what you want. Let’s help our NHS staff.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'We normally host a big Christmas lunch for our families and whilst I would love it to go ahead it’s looking unlikely but I have ordered the usual two turkeys and if they can’t come to us DH will be dropping socially distanced cool bags of fully prepared and cooked turkey, stuffing, gravy, puddings etc at 3 houses on Christmas morning. If they can’t come to dinner then dinner will come to them!'

What a lovely plan. If only everyone would do the same, find their own individual ways to show they care, still see people while still protecting each other. The true spirit of Christmas instead of all the excess and commercial bollocks.

The true spirit of Christmas for me, isn't commercial bollocks, it's spending time with people I love. Not delivering them takeout Xmas dinner from a distance. It ain't the food that makes Christmas. It's the company.

You can’t be serious? You think this is a good year to try and restrict all the public transport users to a one-day window? You can’t see any flaws in that plan? Not everyone needs to use trains to see people at Christmas, people have legs, bikes, cars, can use buses and coaches. You think it is better for people to party for 5 days with no restrictions?

For me I'd rather have no relaxation of rules at Christmas, people will die in January because some selfish people will insist on doing what they like at Christmas, you might not care unless of course one of the people that dies is one of your loved ones.

@ancientgran

Trains don’t usually run Boxing Day. It isn't a usual year though is it.

Okay, so you think there’ll be ample drivers and other associates for trains available to run trains on Boxing Day? I presume you want all these trains to run on Xmas eve and Boxing Day with strict social distancing too?

They can "cancel" whatever they want, but the vast vast majority aren't going to pay a blind bit of notice. Can you really see the police going door to door on Christmas day making sure no one has any guests? Or neighbours reporting each other on mass for it? It's just not going to happen. A health protection programme that can't or won't account for real world human behaviour is never going to be effective. So you can either plan for people to spend Christmas together and compensate accordingly after the fact, or you can stomp about insisting people "cancel" Christmas and have exactly the same thing happen but with no contingency plan. People are going to spend Christmas together, rules or no rules, even people who have been following to the letter to this point will probably make this their one exception. It's time to be realistic and plan according to the society we actually live in rather than the fantasy one some people seem to think they can force us to be.

If you go and visit someone in a high risk group and you have been out and about and mixing then you DO risk giving them a virus that could kill them. That's fact not fear.
This is a fact every year. You could be carrying flu, norovirus, even a cold virus, which could kill an elderly relative.

'The true spirit of Christmas for me, isn't commercial bollocks, it's spending time with people I love. Not delivering them takeout Xmas dinner from a distance. It ain't the food that makes Christmas. It's the company.'

Lovely.

Spoilt slightly by a virus that could kill the people you love.

@ancientgran

You can’t be serious? You think this is a good year to try and restrict all the public transport users to a one-day window? You can’t see any flaws in that plan? Not everyone needs to use trains to see people at Christmas, people have legs, bikes, cars, can use buses and coaches. You think it is better for people to party for 5 days with no restrictions?

For me I'd rather have no relaxation of rules at Christmas, people will die in January because some selfish people will insist on doing what they like at Christmas, you might not care unless of course one of the people that dies is one of your loved ones.

The coaches don’t usually run either I think.