Christmas needs to be cancelled.

[AlternativePerspective]

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

Again, if nothing he won't remember matters then I don't really know why I bothered getting him in the night when he was a baby... And my 2.5 year old is very much capable of saying he wants to see his Nana and grandad and getting upset about it, was yours very speech delayed?

Again, I don't think the rules are unreasonable, I have and will continue to follow them and exceed them if it feels like the right choice. My comment was just in response to someone saying that it didn't matter because their kids wouldn't care whether or not they see their grandparents. Mine does, and they care about whether they see him. And I care about whether I see them because they're my parents and I love them. I hate that every thread like this becomes full of people either saying it won't matter to them anyone, which is irrelevant, or trilling on about how lovely it'll be to have the quiet Christmas they've always wanted but have been too bloody pathetic to actually arrange. There's this weird attitude that if you enjoy and will miss a big family Christmas that's unacceptable, that you must not just follow coronavirus restrictions but slavishly love them.

We are so close. I think small Christmas and celebrate when vaccine has made a dent.

@Hardbackwriter

Since my comment about my toddler has been criticised, a few comments:

1. he won't be seeing them at Christmas if it's against the guidance at the time, or if it seems unsafe to us. We're currently paying for extra nursery because although the regular care they do for him could be a childcare bubble I felt uncomfortable about it while community transmission is so high, especially since he's in nursery and DH is a teacher. I didn't say that I intended to break rules, just that I do think it's sad for him and them that they likely won't see each other and I don't know why I have to pretend that it isn't. So many people on MN demand not only that people follow the rules but that they actively like it and I have no idea why.
2. Yes, he does know and care. He asks daily if he's going to Nana and Grandad's house and is upset that the answer is no - he doesn't know he normally goes there on a Tuesday but he definitely knows that it's been longer than normal since he saw them. He talks about them very frequently. We've actually stopped face timing because he keeps crying afterwards because he's so confused by not being able to see them properly. No, he won't remember when he's older but by that logic it also wouldn't matter if I locked him in a cupboard when I felt like it.
3. My parents actually want to break the rules to see us and were very upset when I decided to use extra nursery rather than a childcare bubble, so no I don't think they'll be pleased to spend a quiet Christmas alone.

I'm sorry that some people don't have good relationships with their family but again I don't see why I have to not just follow the rules but pretend that it's no loss to me at all that I've spent most of this year not seeing my family, who I love very much.

Most of your post is understandable. Your last paragraph is unreasonable though. Although some people here are happy to not see their in-laws, the majority are not seeing parents/grandparents as they don't feel that it is safe to do so. Also, as vaccines are due in the New Year, many feel that it's not worth risking any elderly relatives dying of covid for the sake of seeing them at Christmas, when it will be much safer to just wait an extra month or two.

@Hardbackwriter you post screams of someone putting their personal risk and circumstances first. I am going shout this from my (socially distanced rooftop) - “THIS IS NOT ABOUT PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES - ITS ABOUT REDUCING THE SPREAD OF INFECTION” - for EVERYONE, for the good of our wider community, NHS, key workers etc etc

www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/lifestyle/a34737791/robbie-williams-christmas-song/?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=sociaflow&utm_medium=social
Cant Stop Christmas

Good god, the last thing I want is a jaunty Christmas song from Robbie Williams, or other celebrities spreading hope this Xmas from their multi million pound mansions - while the rest of us suffer.

@WinnieHarlow

Good god, the last thing I want is a jaunty Christmas song from Robbie Williams, or other celebrities spreading hope this Xmas from their multi million pound mansions - while the rest of us suffer.

They need to keep out of it! It's bad enough all the ones coming on tv chat shows saying how they enjoyed lockdown 1 ! It wasn't good at all but if you have a lovely big home and a garden it might have been ok for them to ' have some fun with the kids' for millions it was hell not working or earning or being stuck in a small place with the children!

It is very easy to say "I'll happily endure weeks of lockdown for the sake of Christmas".

The impact of lockdowns is not only on mental health and people being stuck in small apartments, bored or something.

It's also on businesses and employment. People lose jobs. The government can't keep paying people not to work.

It's on people with health problems who can't get proper treatment because the health system is flooded with urgent covid cases.

It could be you or a relative, including those you so badly want to see, to need a hospital bed that's simply not available.

It's not just you having your extended family under the same roof. It's several hundreds of thousands if not millions, if everybody thought the same way.

Each family gathering of different households is a potential suprespreader event.

Many gatherings across the country and you definitely have several suprespreader events. One of which could affect your family.

Is it me, or are there a lot of "special case exemptions" being posted here. Personally I am quite happy to stay "undercover" this festive season as is, I might add, my partner, as we'd very much like to fly off to the Costas next February.......ooh no, wait a minute, that sounds like we're putting our personal wants ahead of the good of all.....it's SO difficult..... Right, back to reality. Just be careful, consider the actual risks very thoroughly and ( certainly in our case) make a sensible decision as to how you'ld like to see next year......me and my family and friends being still alive to enjoy it gets my vote, your views may vary depending on your "needs"......

@WinnieHarlow

It baffles me, completely baffles me why people still see Covid purely in terms of their personal circumstances and risk - it’s NOT about that, it’s about reducing the spread of infection - until we have the vaccine.

Well said.

Oh fgs I've just heard on the news they may announce that a few households can 'bubble' for 7days then that's it. I hope they don't say that, people seem to hear 'bubble' and think its a magic wand that keeps everyone safe.

What they should say is households shouldn't mix (barring terminally ill and people who live alone), the risk is very high but there will be no penalties etc for people doing what they like, they clearly will anyway but be it on their own heads.

It's all mights and maybes. A "source" said this or that.
I would have thought nothing is certain until Govt have data closer to the time

I'm not really up for it, I'd prefer to keep things more limited and hopefully not have stricter restrictions into the new year, but I do understand that people won't stick to the guidelines anyway. It's easy for me to say because I don't live on my own, so our actual Christmas Day will be exactly the same as any other year. Must be different for people who live alone or far away from close family.

But having said that, if I lived in a high risk area, I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing I'd hosted or attended a 'super spreader' event. I'd rather family members live to see more Christmas's. Especially because of the time of year and that everyone will be congregating inside 😔.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Oh fgs I've just heard on the news they may announce that a few households can 'bubble' for 7days then that's it. I hope they don't say that, people seem to hear 'bubble' and think its a magic wand that keeps everyone safe.

What they should say is households shouldn't mix (barring terminally ill and people who live alone), the risk is very high but there will be no penalties etc for people doing what they like, they clearly will anyway but be it on their own heads.

I agree (second paragraph!)

I can't see how this is going to work with schools finishing so close to Christmas, then going back early in January too. Schools would have to finish two weeks before, and go back two weeks after the week ended in order to massively reduce the resulting spread of covid. It's just not worth it, especially when there's vaccines ready for the new year.

Maybe it will be on purpose. Let everyone have Christmas so then they can lock us all up in January again and blame food shortages on people panic shopping before lockdown.
It's allllllll plaaned out, I tell ya!

Whether it’s cancelled or not is irrelevant to me. I will be seeing my family whatever happens!

[quote WinnieHarlow]@Hardbackwriter you post screams of someone putting their personal risk and circumstances first. I am going shout this from my (socially distanced rooftop) - “THIS IS NOT ABOUT PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES - ITS ABOUT REDUCING THE SPREAD OF INFECTION” - for EVERYONE, for the good of our wider community, NHS, key workers etc etc[/quote]
I guessing your personal circumstances are quite good then

I'm astounded that the government are reportedly leaning towards relaxing the rules for a five day period over Christmas and somehow making up for this with a tighter lockdown before and after Christmas.

Are the rules necessary or not? If they are necessary why can they be relaxed?

Since March due to the rules my family have:
Cancelled a wedding,
Had an awful tiny socially distanced funeral
Closed my business for a period as I can't work from home, and can't claim any help.
Celebrated birthdays alone
Left my father who lives in central leicester largely alone, lonely and increasingly fraiL
Cancelled UL trips
Not seen friends and family for celebrations and who need support and friendship,

Why should we have missed out on so much if it is ok to forget it all for five days?

I've followed the rules but if they can be relaxed for Christmas then I feel like saying 'fuck you Boris' I'll do what suits me from now on.

@Chaotic45 You've left your dad alone? Why?

'Why should we have missed out on so much if it is ok to forget it all for five days?'

It isn’t ok but people will do it anyway. They should say 'mix households if you refuse not to but do it knowing Jan will see a sharp increase in hospital admissions with increased deaths 2 weeks later. Is it worth it?'.

Missed birthday celebrations aren't anything to flap about but if your father is frail and alone that is of course a worry but you can bubble with him anyway so surely no different to prepandemic?

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Maybe it will be on purpose. Let everyone have Christmas so then they can lock us all up in January again and blame food shortages on people panic shopping before lockdown. It's allllllll plaaned out, I tell ya!

I have wondered if this is all planned to force a lockdown in January when borders and logistics will be a total chaos due to Brexit. Also people's excitement at being released to some sort of normality, coupled with Christmas madness means that they will not be focused on the absolute sh** show that is coming down the tracks.

I will be seeing my family whatever happens!

I'll be seeing my family too.
I just won't be having them all around a table for a meal. Or all together in the same room at the same time.

We can all be together over a few days, as safely as possible.

It's multiple households spending entire days together, with no masks and no distancing, particularly over meals, in a poor ventilated place, that is the main problem. And that will have consequences in the following weeks, for the health services and for the economy, and for people's mental health.
And that may mean we'll have to spend more time apart from our relatives.

@NotAKaren I was joking, but yeah. It does make you do little "wait. Nahh. They wouldn't. Right?"😁