Christmas needs to be cancelled.

[AlternativePerspective]

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

We will be staying home, having Christmas just us and my children will give not one flying fuck - why? Because Santa will still come, the tree will still be decorated, the Christmas films still watched, they will make themselves sick on chocolate for breakfast and they will face time granny and nana who have already had the gifts delivered to us.

I have a toddler who doesn't think facetime and a present is nearly as good as hugging and spending time with his beloved grandparents, and tbh I'd think it was really sad if he did.

'Not to mention the trauma of being alone in hospital for weeks.If you think a lonely Christmas is sad, consider a lonely time in ICU for weeks, surrounded by doctors and nurses instead of relatives'

Yes, it is this that people need to think about. There's a weird mindset of 'fuck the government because Cummings broke the rulez ' going on.

The actual point is community transmission is still so high so you're putting your loved ones at risk. People on sm saying their neighbours won't 'dob them in' as if we're all schoolkids skiving school.

Just put the health and wellbeing of relatives first! Anyone terminally ill, disabled or uncle fred living alone should of course bubble with another household. It's one Christmas, our families are worth it.

@SchrodingersImmigrant

The only thing this thread is missing now is someone coming in with the #bekindbitch

I am laso surprised at how many families can simply just self isolate for 2 weeks before Christmas.

We are working from home and I'll pull my child out of school for the last week. I know we are lucky to be able to do that but the plans made were made because we can, I'm aware others aren't as lucky. I won't say I'm not scared of Christmas being a big booze up for some and going from party to party causing more restrictions in the new year. I want this to be over however it needs to be over by protecting people not by allowing herd immunity (if even possible) via the back door.

Just put the health and wellbeing of relatives first! Anyone terminally ill, disabled or uncle fred living alone should of course bubble with another household. It's one Christmas, our families are worth it.

But this is a contradiction in terms - this seems to assume that you can't be both vulnerable and lonely, but the elderly, in particular, are particularly likely to be both.

'this seems to assume that you can't be both vulnerable and lonely, but the elderly, in particular, are particularly likely to be both.'
For the trillionth time anyone alone should of course be allowed to visit one other household.

So put granny's health first - unless she lives alone? Will the virus know that it mustn't infect her if she lives alone but that if she lives with grandad then she's fair game?

Totally with you OP.

[quote TaraRhu]@Muchadoaboutlife that was a really rude response. It's you that would be playing god by spreading a virus to people that might die from it for the sake of YOUR selfish desires to eat a roast dinner. [/quote]
Tara it’s no more selfish than people like you who don’t give a damn about the spiralling suicide rates due to the effects of lockdown and the undiagnosed cancers due to screening being cancelled. Everyone on the planet is selfish to a certain degree it’s just some of us admit it and care about ALL deaths not just a small section. And to those people who want to see don’t kill granny posters. Funny how no one has ever given a toss about giving norovirus to granny( or grandad as he matters too) in previous years which can be equally deadly to the vulnerable. I’ve seen numerous justifications on here over the years for taking children who have thrown up numerous times to grannies for Christmas as it would be too difficult to cancel. And let’s not get started on people who attempt to take children with chicken pox on flights because they don’t want to lose the holiday. The double standards from some people is ridiculous.

The thing is, where does it end? On this thread I’ve seen numerous people stating a version of “it’s only one Christmas” “just don’t see your family and friends for this one period and help save lives”

However, the problem is that it has already been....
Just for this Easter
Just for this bank holiday
Just for these few weekends
Just for this summer holiday
Just for this wedding
Just for this birthday party
Just for this much planned and looked forward to weekend away without the kids
Just for this night out with your friends
Just for these festivals
Just for these live gigs
Just for this Halloween
Just for this Bonfire night
Just for this time whilst your loved one is in hospital and you can’t visit them
Just for this time whilst your loved one is in a care home and you can’t visit them
Just for this protest you feel very strongly about and needs to happen to try to prevent a massive injustice continuing.

In addition, whilst we have all been putting off all of the above for the “greater good” we have also been told;
Just wash your hands every time you go anywhere
Just wear a mask
Just don’t physically touch anybody else even for a hug with your own family.
Just put up with this queue at the shop
Just put up with this one way system
Just listen to all these PA announcements and tv adverts
Just go through convoluted steps to drop off and pick up your children from school
Just find a space in your home to work
Just stop going out of your house as much as possible

And yet STILL it doesn’t seem to be making any difference.

So say we all agree and say, ok we still won’t see our friends and family during a time when more people than ever have a bit more time off work at the same time and can come together and try to recover what has been a shit year for most of the population. Then what?

Just this New Year’s Eve
Just this Valentine’s Day
Just this Half term
Just this Easter
And so on......

The problem is, nobody in power has given any level of advice about exactly when all this can come to an end and so it feels as if we have to keep giving up everything fun in our lives but without that ever paying off. At some point we have to learn to live with this virus and adapt our healthcare systems to cope with the winter influx that occurs every year.

After one majorly long year and good go at doing all the lockdown and social distance stuff, I’d say it’s time for a new strategy. Also, if living without risk means that we have to continue to give up all of the above then I’m amazed that more people haven’t already decided that they’ll take their chances, including the elderly and vulnerable.

It ends when it ends. Nobody has a crystal ball. There is a reasonable expectation that widespread vaccination, of a variety of different vaccines, will place us all, globally speaking, in a better position.

It is upsetting to see someone with a scientific background lay things out very clearly and thoroughly, and with great patience, and have this information glazed over and met with just more foot stamping and petulance.

it feels as if we have to keep giving up everything fun in our lives but without that ever paying off.

Now we are six? The payoff is life itself. I know it's boring, but the efforts being made by overwhelmed and exhausted hospital staff, and bumbling governments, all over the world is intended to ease suffering and save lives.

'The problem is, nobody in power has given any level of advice about exactly when all this can come to an end '

What a longwinded confused post.

I'll keep it simple for you. Ready? It will come to an end when people are vaccinated, hospital admissions reduce and then deaths come down.

The government will tell us next week about Christmas! (It'll probably be in the daily mail long before then. )

No confusion about what’s going on here thanks.

It was deliberately long winded to emphasise and mirror the equally long winded and over exaggerated response to covid.

We'll not be coming out of Lockdown 2.0 on 2 December is my prediction.

My prediction is we will be coming out of lockdown 2 on the 2nd and with relaxed restrictions at Christmas. 🤞

@wowfudge

We'll not be coming out of Lockdown 2.0 on 2 December is my prediction.

We'll come out of 'lockdown' but go straight back into tiers of restrictions which for many will be little different from lockdown.

After one majorly long year and good go at doing all the lockdown and social distance stuff, I’d say it’s time for a new strategy. Also, if living without risk means that we have to continue to give up all of the above then I’m amazed that more people haven’t already decided that they’ll take their chances, including the elderly and vulnerable.

The new strategy is vaccination if you have not heard. If you're surprised at the number of people who haven't already decided to take their chances perhaps your thinking is not in line with the majority of people. There's no way I'm going to give up now and risk the lives of the elderly and vulnerable just so I can socialise at Christmas this year.

That's fine for you @Belladonna12 but I will be socialising as much at Christmas as the then restrictions allow. I will also not allow people to judge me, it's my decision and will be within guidelines

I'm sick of people deciding they can decide the rules and judging others.

I've just read the virus is killing one person every 8 seconds worldwide. One in every 17 seconds in Europe. In Switzerland and France, intensive care units have reached 95% capacity... The UK has just had its highest number of daily deaths in six months.

It seems strange to view the response to this as "over-exaggerated".

Its worth looking at wordometers to fully appreciate the bigger picture with world population though, over 200000 people born today net gain of 100000 over deaths.

Christmas doesn't need to be cancelled. People just need to be sensible

Unfortunately, people appear unable to be sensible. One person on here said she does Christmas in sittings, seeing numerous arms of the family on different days of the week between Christmas and New year. That's multiple opportunities for contracting COVID and multiple opportunities to spread it. If even half those people did the same, that's an enormous potential for spread! Seeing your elderly mum who would otherwise be alone or your terminally ill father or even just meeting up with one other household isn't likely to be an issue, but different households/ groups in one day or across multiple days IS an issue.

VulvaPerson yes you can sign non treatment orders, ceiling of care orders and all other host of advanced directives. You'd have to carry it, very obviously and easily found upon your person at all times but almost anyone can refuse treatment for any reason at any time and you can make those decisions, legally in advance.

I still don’t understand why the emphasis isn’t on making hospital capacity larger?

We have. We've asked retired nurses and those who've left the profession to work elsewhere to come back. Same with drs, OTs and physios. We've turned break rooms, surgical recovery suits and canteens in to ICUs. We've given final year nursing and medical students jobs before they've completed their training. We've built temporary hospitals in hospitality venues.

We can not create more capacity with out training new drs and nurses and we don't have the 3-7 years that will take.

We've done all that, and we still don't have sufficient capacity.

You do realize not everyone has kids and a partner right? Single people should just suck up being alone on christmas, it's their own fault for not popping out a few kids eh?

Single people can form a bubble. They can visit that bubble at Christmas. They don't have to be alone.

Tara it’s no more selfish than people like you who don’t give a damn about the spiralling suicide rates due to the effects of lockdown and the undiagnosed cancers due to screening being cancelled.

I know you were responding to a different Tara however this is such a contradiction! The more people spread the virus around at Christmas, the longer lockdown will be needed, the longer screening services will be cancelled, the more cancers will be missed. You can say "well screening shouldn't be cancelled" but how do we staff them? Those staff aren't just sitting at home doing nothing, they've been moved to urgent wards due staff off with COVID and the increase in patients requiring higher staffing levels. The longer lockdown goes on, the longer mental health is impacted, the longer mental health services are shut down, the higher suicide rates. Do it's either limitations now & over Christmas or limitations from January onward. Both have consequences but I'd argue Christmas as normal or close to normal will have bigger knock on effect to the things you mentioned.