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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Christmas needs to be cancelled.

661 replies

AlternativePerspective · 19/11/2020 08:40

So the suggestion to make it possible for the world to go and be super spreaders at Christmas is to stay in lockdown until Christmas, then open up for five days, then go back into lockdown for another 25 days (at least), five days for every day we’re out of lockdown.

Are people really that desperate to have a get together they could have at any other time of the year, maybe in the summer when this pandemic is under control, that they’re willing to spend months in lockdown to achieve it? Really?

My personal opinion is that it is our duty as a society to have a low key Christmas regardless of whether they take this ridiculous measure or not.

I understand that for some they want to see family at Christmas, but these ridiculous suggestions have gone too far.

Just cancel Christmas and give us an extra bank holiday next year to make up for it.

OP posts:
amicissimma · 19/11/2020 22:08

@Lweji

Not easy to find on mainstream media but dig a bit deeper and there are loads of scientists saying the same thing, including all those who submitted the Great Barrington document.

I don't need to dig deeper. I am a scientist. I know many scientists personally. I work in a scientific environment.
Not only that but we all work in health sciences and I know many epidemiologists too.

We all consider those (not loads, but a tiny sample) as dumb asses. And dangerous too.

Possibly there are scientists who consider people with your views 'as dumb asses. And dangerous too.'
Sleazeyjet · 19/11/2020 22:10

Plus. I could tell you all I’m 5ft10, 22 and a model.

Doesn’t make it true —sadly—

amicissimma · 19/11/2020 22:11

I am often take aback by how rude and dismissive some academics are about other academics. In all sorts of fields.

LastTrainEast · 19/11/2020 23:38

" If they want to take that chance who are you to stop them?" How many times does it need to be explained that it's taking a chance for other people too.

Maybe a big coloured diagram would help? Maybe if we issued crayons and had people help with the coloring in they'd absorb and retain it for longer.

LastTrainEast · 19/11/2020 23:41

@KitKatastrophe

If you go and visit someone in a high risk group and you have been out and about and mixing then you DO risk giving them a virus that could kill them. That's fact not fear. This is a fact every year. You could be carrying flu, norovirus, even a cold virus, which could kill an elderly relative.
The risks are far higher now. Unless you're one of those who thinks it's a plot by the Freemasons. It's also in addition to the chance you might have flu etc.
OhReallyThen · 19/11/2020 23:43

@Peppafrig

Couldn’t agree with you more not worth it at all especially for businesses
This! I care more about still having a job to be able to afford rent and food next year, let alone Christmas, than I do getting together for a roast dinner and a few presents that could be posted. This is about so many people's livelihoods.
cbt944 · 20/11/2020 00:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MercyBooth · 20/11/2020 00:09

@cbt944 I have reported your post as it contains derogatory terminology to describe those with mental health issues.

No one on this thread is a Covid denier. I am perfectly willing to have a vaccine. So please dont use abusive silencing tactics. I once had an ex that did that. Its chilling.

MercyBooth · 20/11/2020 00:13

Im going to have the vaccine as soon as it is available to me.

DH doesnt want it. Ive tried to persuade him but there is no shifting his stance. He said he doesnt trust it or the Government because of the way they have behaved
Actions have consequences.

cbt944 · 20/11/2020 00:16

This reply has been deleted

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MercyBooth · 20/11/2020 00:18

deny deflect defend.

cbt944 · 20/11/2020 00:19

@MercyBooth

Are you posting from Narnia OP
Perhaps I should report you.
MercyBooth · 20/11/2020 00:21

deny deflect defend.

MercyBooth · 20/11/2020 00:25

Are you also going to report the poster who called her Oliver Cromwell. If not why not?

cbt944 · 20/11/2020 00:25

Good to see you have claimed the moral highground! I am unsure why you have taken my previous post so personally. There does seem to be an unusual amount of projection going on in your responses, though.

Sorry you are finding the restrictions difficult, unpleasant, and unwanted.

Vivi0 · 20/11/2020 00:37

My god, nutbags unite!

I haven’t seen anyone on here denying the existence of Covid, perhaps I missed that?

Funny you should use that word though, that’s exactly what I was thinking whilst reading all the posts by the Covid martyrs harping on about all the sacrifices they’ve made and accusing anyone who isn’t obeying “the rules” to the letter of being granny killers and SELFISH - nutbags!

cbt944 · 20/11/2020 00:44

^Steady on! You're not allowed to say nutbags.

It is a slippery slope from outright denial covid exists, may infect or debilitate you and yours, as you are not one of 'the others', along with a refusal to accept the difficult reality we the world find ourselves in, and/or crapping on about sovereign rights because one dislikes restrictions or any change to normal life - which has been kind of unavoidable in most countries c/- this pandemic - and refusing to accept Christmas might need to be a little different, as if the virus will politely stop infecting humans...

Anyway, I've clearly touched a nerve.

HumanFemale1 · 20/11/2020 02:03

@Tararararara

Tessiot

I have young, Santa-believing, ridiculously excited about Christmas children.

We will be staying home, having Christmas just us and my children will give not one flying fuck - why? Because Santa will still come, the tree will still be decorated, the Christmas films still watched, they will make themselves sick on chocolate for breakfast and they will face time granny and nana who have already had the gifts delivered to us.

It isn't cancelling Christmas, it is celebrating Christmas in a way that doesn't increase everyone's risk of covid, endanger the economy by causing a longer lockdown or impacting more negatively on the NHS.

"I will honour Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year. I will live in the Past, the Present, and the Future."

You do realize not everyone has kids and a partner right? Single people should just suck up being alone on christmas, it's their own fault for not popping out a few kids eh?
3littlewords · 20/11/2020 05:13

Christmas doesn't need to be cancelled just different or smaller this year.
I'm staying at home this year because we can't isolate on the run up to Xmas dc need to go to school we need to go to work , DH self employed no work no money. My family who we would normally share Christmas day with certainly won't be isolating they have freely mixed households all through despite DFIL shielding but that's another story. So I also don't want to put us in that position where we may have to isolate after Christmas either.
Of course everyone on MN is holier than thou and will be strict isolating on the run up to Christmas day as will everyone else who will be attending their gathering so there's no chance anybody can be passing the virus around. IRL however I doubt that will be the case!

november90 · 20/11/2020 06:08

The only people I would see on Xmas is my sons (who I live with), my parents (who I live with), and my sister and her family who we are in a bubble with so it actually makes no difference (ex peck now I can't see my sister and her husband yet I can see their children). I think we will be in a third lockdown come jam/feb anyway and the government/public are going to blame Christmas regardless.

Lweji · 20/11/2020 06:23

Possibly there are scientists who consider people with your views 'as dumb asses. And dangerous too.'

I'm sure there are. Like there are flat earthers. And scientists defending creationism or climate change.
You need to understand that those are a very tiny minority and are always people who have no real knowledge and have not done any real work in the field.
Their beliefs and opinions about those subjects are not based on science, despite their claims.

In the scientific community we may disagree on many things. We do. All the time. But they tend to be on the finer details. We even often disagree with our governments and their advisors.

But we all agree (minus quite frankly the nutjobs) that this is a serious pandemic and that contact between people is the main drive, and must be reduced significantly or made safe by PPE and hygiene.

We'll agree that lockdowns are very damaging tools, but sometimes are needed if governments can't control the spread.
We'll agree that testing and tracing is a very important tool.
We've come to realise that transmission by aerosols and before symptoms is quite important. We may disagree, or be unsure, on how important.
We all know that health systems have limits, like testing labs, and tracing teams. We fully understand that you can't magic up trained people to do jobs properly.

We all agree that transmission is higher in environments with many people, with poor ventilation, with people talking loudly.
We also understand that the death rates increase substantially with age and certain conditions.
They go up from 50 years of age and for men. By 80 years of age it can be about 10%, not 1%.
The probability that your elderly relatives have of dying, if they get infected, is more like 1 in 10 than 1 in a 100.

Not to mention the trauma of being alone in hospital for weeks.
If you think a lonely Christmas is sad, consider a lonely time in ICU for weeks, surrounded by doctors and nurses instead of relatives. If they survive, which is more unlikely if they need ICU.

Unless you've quarantined before meeting them, the probability of having one infected person in the family meeting increases by each household, by each child in school and by each person with more contacts, and each person who rarely wears a mask when they should.
If there's 0.1% chance for each to be infective, for 10 people it means there's a 1% chance that the virus will spread to many in that family. It can easily be 50% - 5 people.

You may be OK this time, but for 1 in 100 families across the country the effects could be devastating.
Then people from those families will go to your schools, your jobs, your community.

For the society in general, the increase in cases and in people in hospital will be very damaging indeed.

I wish it wasn't like this. I wish we could all get together like in previous years.
This is the reality, and what we have seen happening again and again. People think they're the exception. People think the risk is low. Until it hits them. Until it hits me and you.

Lweji · 20/11/2020 06:24

Big ups.
Denying climate change, not defending. Grin

Wtfdoipick · 20/11/2020 08:18

Our Christmas will be relatively normal however the run up to it will consist of strict isolation ( won't be a major change for me). It will be 3 households, 6 people one of whom has terminal cancer. We will do everything in our power to ensure there is no risk to them, we do not want to risk giving them covid. I personally would happily spend Christmas at home with my nuclear family however the partner of the person ill needs others around, having Christmas without other family members would break them. I won't be killing granny, we won't be seeing anyone else, we will isolate before we go then stay for the extended Christmas/new year period, in that time no one will be leaving the house. We have no intention of putting them at risk. It will be the first time since March I've broken any guidance never mind actual laws. We live in one of the areas that have been in extended lockdown and my family member is at breaking point.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 20/11/2020 09:05

The only thing this thread is missing now is someone coming in with the #bekindbitch

I am laso surprised at how many families can simply just self isolate for 2 weeks before Christmas.

Lweji · 20/11/2020 09:23

@Wtfdoipick
And others
We all need to manage risk the best we can, and we all have our reasons for our behaviour.
It's fine when we take as many precautions as we should, and can balance the risk of the consequences vs the benefits.

We did all get together as family (11 people, 3 households plus elderly mum) after lockdown here, when our children had been away from school. It was possible to open all windows and we all wore masks most of the time, spread through two spacious rooms.

I won't do it now because children are in school, the number of cases in the community is much higher and it's colder, so we won't be able to keep windows open the whole time.

Unfortunately, many families won't manage risk well.
It's the families who think "we'll get together anyway because it's Christmas and don't mind going to lockdown for weeks later, and won't bother with precautions" that are a worry.

Even with precautions, things can go wrong. People will forget distancing, some will have risky behaviours that family members aren't aware of, and so on.

I'll also add that nobody can be sure how they'll react to covid. We can't say that younger people are safe.