Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

[Katya213]

Until vaccines are rolled out, coronavirus is something we will have to get used to living alongside, shutting schools is going to have a terrible effect in the long run.

[rookiemere]

Another benefit of structured circuit breaker school closures- DPs are allowed to request parental leave in week long blocks so that could be used to cover it. Part time learning is very difficult for an employee and will result in many people - mostly women - having to quit their jobs.

[NullcovoidNovember]

Stormy in the North, I totally agree.
We didn't get any work issued at all for primary age dd. It was less than haphazard. Yet my place managed to get on line within two days and 1 quick session on it. As did, many other places, so it was extremely frustrating that my own dc were abandoned.

With just barrels of weak excuses coming at us.

Even in si, the teacher refused to teach and did the absolute bare minimum. Ie when they are supposed to be teaching to a standard.

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

I think it's becoming inevitable that schools will close for a fire break.

It's unfair to ask teachers to continue to work in unsafe conditions. Or for students to attend in unsafe conditions.

If it's to be avoided then there has to be an acknowledgement that prevention methods are totally inadequate. And money spent on improvements. Some students and teachers are crammed into rooms with no window that can be opened. This is utterly wrong. In some rooms social distancing is impossible - classes need to be made smaller.

If parents want schools to stay open they have to lobby the powers that be for greater safety measures in schools and not expect staff to suck it up because you need to work. Very unfair.

[WhatHaveIFound]

Not all schools are like this though so I don't want to see a blanket shutting of schools.

When DS first started back there were loads of cases and bubbles kept collapsing. Then they went to a couple of cases a week, now they're been clear for 10 days. We get weekly updates from the school so it's very reassuring.

[NullcovoidNovember]

I think if schools have now bucked up their ideas and got on line they could at reassure dp of older dc that they will get taught and it will be run as per normal classroom.

[SansaSnark]

@Ginogineli

Mumsnet doesn’t really represent society opinion

Majority of parents want kids in school and gov know that if they close schools people can’t work

Last time gov told people they should work from home so kids cpuld safely stay at home

Now gov have said people can work if they can’t work from home and now businesses have had time to implement covid regulations, most workplaces are still open and they know that

They simply won’t close schools as parents who work would be stuck

It’s wbout balancing it

Schools close then work closes- they won’t allow that - earlier in year was totally different and public opinion isn’t there for it

Firstly, I think we don't necessarily need the same strategy for young children needing childcare and older ones who could be at home for a day or two a week without supervision.

Secondly, when kids have to self isolate, this is a childcare nightmare for families as no-one external can do childcare. If it was planned blended learning, the children can at least leave the house for e.g. school runs, or grandparents can do childcare etc. I know that doesn't work for everyone but it would help some families a lot. Sudden school closures aren't great for childcare, either.

For most families, it is surely better to have notice to say "Your child won't be in on Friday for the next three weeks" than "We're closing the school tomorrow and we are not 100% sure when we can reopen".

Finally, lots of workplaces are closed at the expense of schools and people are losing income. I am not sure that childless 20-somethings will be happy with the current situation for ever. I think a lot of people will resent the current lockdown being extended if no change is made to how schools are opening.

But regardless, it doesn't have to be all open or all closed. I don't think people are talking about full closures, but maybe a move to a rota/blended learning so that there can be more social distancing in schools (especially secondary) and less mixing of large numbers of students- reducing the number of children sent home if there is a case.

[CodenameVillanelle]

@kowari

Those who think it's fine to send teenagers home for weeks because they don't need child care - how do you expect parents WFH to work with teenagers around the house all day?
Or go out to work and leave young teens and maybe even some 11 and 12 year olds home alone every day for weeks.

Well exactly

[SansaSnark]

@rookiemere

Another benefit of structured circuit breaker school closures- DPs are allowed to request parental leave in week long blocks so that could be used to cover it. Part time learning is very difficult for an employee and will result in many people - mostly women - having to quit their jobs.

Surely not in secondary schools, which are the main driver of infection. Most kids could stay home for 1/2 days a week, but 2 weeks on their own is a tougher prospect for Y7 students especially.

But is it really easier to cover multiple 2 weeks, no notice closures/self isolation periods, than a standard 1/2 days off a week?

Also, I know a lot of primary parents struggle with the school run when one child has to self isolate and the other doesn't.

I think different people are facing different problems.

[NullcovoidNovember]

Last golden days...

The crux is that it seems that people with absolutely no idea of school or children, write peculiar guidelines that are not based in reality... Dish them out and think...
There... Schools are safer now...

Eg the classic jenny harries deputy medial officer saying teacher and students are safe because of the measures they put in place.

Side by side seating and facing front.

[alreadytaken]

What there should be is rapid testing not in Liverpool, where rates were declining anyway, but in schools. Test bubbles as a group followed by individual testing if positive. Should start in Hull.

Schools without outbreaks should have waste water testing and rapid testing when that shows a problem.

Those who want schools open lobby your MPs because otherwise Doris will close schools early to save businesses' Christmas profits. www.theyworkforyou.com/

[CodenameVillanelle]

@Peppafrig

I have to agree those saying well my kids can’t stay at home as I’m working . Many of us have been put in this position overnight now multiple times. I don’t think the school would accept no my son will be in for the next two weeks as I don’t have a plan in place . Much easier to know it’s coming and have time to plan for it .

Are you serious? How do we plan for kids to be at home when we are single parents and there is no household mixing?

[MarshaBradyo]

It sounds stressful for you with vulnerability but primary more likely to stay open. Can you talk to the school about your concern, some have been more flexible.

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

I think the tide of opinion is changing. Mumsnet has always been very pro keeping schools open. In the last week there are more posters coming down on the side of closures/pulling kids out early.

A 4 week break for Christmas would make sense. I would support it.

[NullcovoidNovember]

Already taken, and you do accept that business profits are the monies that keep a roof over people's heads? Keep food on the table, pay the taxes that pays public sector wages?

[BelleSausage]

Just because you don’t have a positive case (yet) doesn’t mean the virus isn’t circulating in school. We learned that last week when a student tested positive as part of a national study. She had no symptoms.

Once they started testing some staff members who had mild symptoms (very cold like) we had a few more positives. Who knows how long it has been circulating and how many community infections have been caused by school contact. We now have a bubble shut for the first time.

PHE are telling us not to test more students- which is madness.

So don’t be so sure that your school is safe and secure just because there aren’t any positive tests. Are they actually testing enough students to find asymptomatic infections?

[MarshaBradyo]

I find the opposite re mn v rl. Ie parents keen to stay open In rl and not taking them out. But low hit area which would probably have impact.

[JustAboutPresentable]

I don’t know what the answer is but the situation at the moment is prettty chaotic. My DC have been home self isolating for two week periods three times since September. I work in education and my ‘bubble’ has been sent home twice. We are all already doing blended learning. The stress for me at home and professionally is the constant chopping and changing.

[StormyInTheNorth]

@Pomegranatespompom
I know it was basic, but it was still socialisation in that they were going somewhere else each day and seeing other children. A bit part of education when you're 5.

And yes to PP who said they were set up for home work in 2 days. DHs work place was. It took school six months. Meanwhile I saw DDs FT teacher walking round a local beauty spot in school hrs in June.

[rookiemere]

There is no perfect answer, just the least bad solution to help us all limp through to Spring when hopefully the vaccine will have started to make an impact.
Just a point which is for a longer Christmas closure to make a difference we'd need to keep the current level of UK lockdown at least for it to have any point. So ban foreign travel and try to restrict people moving round the country. Otherwise come schools reopening lots of different people will be infected and the vicious circle will start again.
Sigh - it's not going to happen is it ? Not with Christmas and New Years Eve.

[Rhine]

We have a positive case in a non teaching member of staff at the school I work in. Not in my bubble thankfully, but has resulted in seven members of staff having to isolate. We are all exhausted, we can’t do anymore. We are all chipping it with cleaning, I clean down the tops all the time and you could probably eat off the floors right now. We are always washing and sanistising our hands, and yet I’m also certain there is a child in the class I’m working in who has Covid (the teacher agrees me). Yet the fucking selfish, entitled parents have continued sending them in to school! It’s never been easier to get a test ffs, but this is what we are up against! Entitled parents. You can see it on here ‘ I can’t work if schools are closed’, well here’s a newsflash for you SCHOOL IS NOT CHILDCARE’.

[CallmeAngelina]

People who are still proposing that others take their children out of school if they're unhappy at the current set-up are spectacularly missing the point.
This is not just about individuals. The wider picture is showing us that schools ARE driving the spread of the virus. Keeping them open, however important the reasons, WILL lead to a lengthened crisis.
And to quote on here that you need your kids in school as you're the main breadwinner is also not much comfort to all those workers in, say, the hospitality or beauty industries, who are seeing their businesses likely wrecked, to no avail, as this ridiculous half-hearted lockdown is a waste of time whilst schools are still open.
I don't want schools to close -if nothing else, as a teacher, it will make my life much harder - but I can recognise that the wider picture as a whole means it's actually necessary, for the time being.

[grenadines]

I would not mind remote learning for last week of term and first week of next term in secondary but would not want the indefinite closure we had in the summer term again. I think that decisions beyond that should be taken at local levels.

[Peppafrig]

@CodenameVillanelle your kids could get sent home today and told to isolate for two weeks. Then it could happen again in another week after they are back. I’m saying at least it’s better to know they are off and plan for it .

[Peppafrig]

I believe in Scotland children who received certain benefits like free school meals were allowed to attend school with the the key workers children.