Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

Probably around the same time people started thinking 'only 500 deaths today'.

I don't know why it has to just be women but I think that number is about 1.3 million (that includes pre school and nursery)

3.5m

My question is: in what other scenario would it be acceptable to put 100% at risk because of the needs of 10%?
If this happened in any other setting everyone would be up in arms and demanding that the 10% be compensated normally and the rest not be put at risk.

And the 3.5m are just the mums, not the kids and not the dads.
(yes, edge cases of dads being primary carers exist, but not general).

So everyone who says that they need schools to be open because of childcare -even if the words education leave their lips to conceal the real fact- should be redirected to demanding either A) SAFER ENV or B) compensation so not to put the other 90% at risk (+ the kids)

I feel for anyone who relies on school for childcare, but there are other and SAFER ways!

@Delatron

Same here. Odd case brought in to school by a positive parent first. Nobody else in the bubble has caught it.

...as far as we know, given that children are asymptomatic. Was anyone tested?

That's 3.5 m people sun.

And it is actually 8% of the workforce, approximately.

I find the 'schools must stay open so I can work' argument a bit weird.

We had the same discussion in March. It didn't help saying that in the last lockdown - why would it this time?

Saying that won't help if a school runs out of teachers to safely open (as is happening in some places now)..

The best way to keep schools open is to have better mitigation in schools to protect teachers and students (and everywhere else too -to keep rates low and hospitals functioning).

some of the posters know that as much as I am for blended learning in sec. schools, I have never dissed parents in need to work or childcare, this is not about them. It's about the gov putting them on a flag for no good reason. Because of these people teachers are getting sick, kids are getting sick... and they spread infection to older age groups (parents --> grandparents)

I am not an economist and don't have the brain to look through budget and shit, but pls convince me that breaking the economy before brexit for the sole purpose that parents can keep working is worth it and there would not have been money in gov pockets to mitigate this.... Pls. someone find good arguments to show I am wrong.

Yes children may be asymptomatic but I’m pretty sure if they all passed it on to parents we’d hear about it.

Lots of parents ill here in March. None at the moment. Can’t say for sure but 🤷🏼‍♀️. No teachers off, no more cases in the school... maybe we are all asymptomatic....

@Piggywaspushed

And it is actually 8% of the workforce, approximately.

Thanks, you're right. I am so angry (for other reasons too... my country of origin made it into the uk news with 3 things today. Not one of them is positive.)

I actually think entire class bubbles should be tested after a positive case. Then we’d get some idea of the spread. So test one week after and then 14 days.

@Delatron
but that would result in actionable data. That's the one thing they want to avoid at all costs.

My daughter is now working from home. (Today with 10 min before she left the house) not due to bubble closure but due to low staff.
Today school sent a letter out to state her class amongst others will be home schooling on a sort of rota. So my Dd is in school tmoz, all of next week except Tuesday and the following week she will be home all week.
We were also warned that they will let is know any changes on a day by day basis, if more teachers are tracked and traced.

This is no good for her mental health at all. Kids need stability. She has had full meltdown today. A child who is usually very happy and stable. The strongest child I know (she has a lot going on with her very poorly dad)

So for my DDs sake I hope schools close. However I know I am extremely lucky to be WFH. I do believe parents should have the choice, my kids wouldn't be going in, therefore reducing the numbers in school for those parents who cannot have their kids at home all day due to work commitments. The spread in schools will lessen.

The sun. How sad is it that I read tour comment and think "so true" rather than what an opportunity it would be for them to have that info!

[quote TheSunIsStillShining]@Delatron
but that would result in actionable data. That's the one thing they want to avoid at all costs.[/quote]
But the data would be how many people had virus in their throats/noses. It wouldn't tell you whether or not they were infectious. A number could have had it asymptomatically weeks ago, neutralised the virus and just had some uninfective remains. And you could see if they were unwell without testing so it wouldn't help with that.

It would be interesting to know how many people had encountered the virus at some point, perhaps.

So what action would you take knowing that a percentage of seemingly well people may or may not be infectious?

My dd is at in a rural secondary school in the east of England, she is in lower 6th, she has had 3 blocks of self isolation, which is a nightmare to manage as a family, but doable. She is now not being taught by non specialist teachers due to self isolation of teachers. It’s a mess, I feel for schools and teaching staff, goodness knows how they are coping, the kids are barely coping, they don’t know if they are coming or going. This mess should have been planned for so much better, we could surely do so something better than what we are doing.

Yes children may be asymptomatic but I’m pretty sure if they all passed it on to parents we’d hear about it.

Are the lockdowns that are happening all over the U.K. not ‘hearing about it’?

Don’t forget that adults can be asymptomatic too.

@TheSunIsStillShining

A bit of context that makes this hill to die on even more of a caricature. There are around 34m people in employment.

Pls. estimate (don't google or ons!) the number of women with primary aged dc!

Why just women though. Both of us had to juggle wfh/homeschool and childcare. You lost me on that

And not sure how 100% are affected

I’m all for blended learning but your point doesn’t work

As a SS teacher with a long term illness and with a husband who’s a SS teacher (although thankfully healthy) I hope blended learning comes in at least for secondaries. Schools are definitely driving community spread and the fact that 10% of staff need to be confirmed as having the virus to close a school (which would be 28 staff in my large London secondary) means it’s bloody hard to close a whole school even if there is a worrying spread. I’m also cross at the sneaky way this government are dealing with the data.... they say in official data only around 30% of community spread is in schools but that’s actually bollocks because that’s just the students. Add in the teachers (who are classed as “workplace cases”) that jumps to around 60% or spread being in schools, the vast majority of that in secondaries (source: NEU stuff in a union meeting today). Also if secondaries go to blended learning then the kids in school can spread out better and actually socially distance from one another.

I know it’s shit for parents if the kids aren’t in school full time but we should be lobbying the government to addresss that (universal basic income and a promise of jobs kept open for people who need to be at home with kids and can’t WFH) rather than keeping our schools open as what are basically very effective Covid spreading factories. I also know if doesn’t do the kids any good and is a problem for welfare- I have kids myself who were very unsettled by the first lockdown- but we can’t just keep the schools open at whatever cost.

@ChloeDecker

Yes children may be asymptomatic but I’m pretty sure if they all passed it on to parents we’d hear about it.

Are the lockdowns that are happening all over the U.K. not ‘hearing about it’?

Don’t forget that adults can be asymptomatic too.

this lockdown is a joke. Almost every shop finds a way around it. A gallery is now selling cupcakes and coffee and crisps to be essential food shop. (not that they are driving the spread....) The very small mom&pop shops (not food, but eg books) are the ones who close. Because they believe in the system. And they are fucked over by them. More and more really small shops are closing. I went through 3 high streets in wandsworth the other day. I know them by heart as we used to live nearby. The amount of empty store was saddening. If gov did everything possible and in a very science oriented way to save people in the past 8 months (and numbers would prove this), then I'd say that this is what happened when manufacturing came about or when the steam engine because common (same era, yes). It's evolution. Maybe driven by the wrong thing, but still evolution.

But what is happening in the UK is just pathetic and beyond provoking anger. Local economy is going to go belly up because of a chain of wrong decisions. People are dying because of incompetent buffoons sitting in comfy offices and because a mistress is more important than the 67m people of the country.

It's not just the teachers. Its all of us*. There will be a small % of people like JRM or weatherspoon boss who will profit from it. Our taxmoney is being laundered into offshore accounts and some of it then re-distributed to the ones giving it to them. Teachers or kids don't matter. As long as they are not noise, they can be used.

They only did something about NHS nurses' pays because they desperately needed them and they were becoming vocal.

I really think that in regimes like this the only way to get something done is to show that you are big and powerful and loud. But mostly loud.
As soon as all teachers would put morality and the love of kids momentarily aside and 100%, all of them called in sick -incl HT and admin staff- they would have to step up. Until then, nothing will happen.
And I'm not being pessimistic, just witnessed almost exactly the same happen in another country.

*And to everyone saying that thank you, they are secure and fine: let's discuss in 5 years when brexit and covid after effects are known/felt. On a personal level, we are doing good and will be for the next yeat. But that doesn't mean that we went through this year unscathed. or believe that we won't be harmed by it just like others. It'll only take more time to feel the ripple effect.

@MostDisputesDieAndNoOneShoots

As a SS teacher with a long term illness and with a husband who’s a SS teacher (although thankfully healthy) I hope blended learning comes in at least for secondaries. Schools are definitely driving community spread and the fact that 10% of staff need to be confirmed as having the virus to close a school (which would be 28 staff in my large London secondary) means it’s bloody hard to close a whole school even if there is a worrying spread. I’m also cross at the sneaky way this government are dealing with the data.... they say in official data only around 30% of community spread is in schools but that’s actually bollocks because that’s just the students. Add in the teachers (who are classed as “workplace cases”) that jumps to around 60% or spread being in schools, the vast majority of that in secondaries (source: NEU stuff in a union meeting today). Also if secondaries go to blended learning then the kids in school can spread out better and actually socially distance from one another.

I know it’s shit for parents if the kids aren’t in school full time but we should be lobbying the government to addresss that (universal basic income and a promise of jobs kept open for people who need to be at home with kids and can’t WFH) rather than keeping our schools open as what are basically very effective Covid spreading factories. I also know if doesn’t do the kids any good and is a problem for welfare- I have kids myself who were very unsettled by the first lockdown- but we can’t just keep the schools open at whatever cost.

This!!!

@Quartz2208

1. because most of the childcare is on mothers.
2. I agree that if both are wfh then it has to be split. But even in that case counting just one parent and saying how about the gov pay 1 parent's salary for x month is logical.
3. This is an approximate number to make a point. It's purpose on a forum is not to be perfectly precise.

Could you please explain why my point doesn't work in a bit more detail than this sentence?

@ChloeDecker I’m taking about in our local area. Anecdotal but I’m hearing similar stories. None of the isolated cases in schools here are causing any outbreaks (yes they may be asymptomatic but all of them?) amongst children or parents. Make of that what you will.

In March we were all dropping like flies round here.

Maybe we have some immunity in the SE? In towns that have been hit hard in the first wave. I see t-cells are showing immunity for much longer than antibodies? Our local secondary of 1,000 pupils has had zero cases..

I hope not.